| Very obviously spoilers ahead, and very obviously talking about themes of suicide, which if you're uncomfortable with said topic, i assume you did your due diligence and researched this series before hand and didn't watch it That said, onto the theory (i am sorry in advanced if some things come off as very blunt, i am incapable of sugarcoating anything) I'll start with my initial interpretation of things just after i completed the series, vvThis was in response to another thread DigiCat said: ^^100% this, well said She is the definition of a toxic mother, guit tripping, gaslighting, and isolating Kakeru, all in the name of controll I will add though, i think more than the punishment aspect of it, she did it also out of her own fear of loosing controll over him, seeing that he was capable of standing up to her after years of being under her thumb As for her final message, yes on the surfice it can seem like a redemption arc, with the directing and emotional OST, but let's not forget... this is the message that pushes Kakeru over the edge resulting in his suicide, and considering her behavioural pattern, i don't think she was completely ignorant of this possible outcome, after all, the flashbacks are quite telling, Kakeru was likely depressed way before her suicide, looking at it this way, rather than a redemption arc, it can be seen as her last attempt at controll I understand she was mentally ill, but i also understand mental illness should NEVER be used as an excuse to mistreat others, especially not children Well, a year after watching the anime, and having reflected on my own personal experience with a toxic parent, it got me thinking, what if the tragedy that is Orange is far darker than what meets the eye? So, we all know how the catalist for Orange's events is Kakeru's mom's suicide, and, while that is of course very tragic, it is also undeniable that Kakeru had a very toxic relationship with his mom, with her being extreamly controlling and constantly gaslighting, guilt-tripping and isolating him, this is made even more evident when he later get's into a toxic relationship with Ueda, basically being drawn to the patterns he's familier with Now, what pushes Kakeru's mom over the edge is the loss of that control, it's Kakeru's refusal to listen to her, him wanting to participate in clubs in school, him wanting to hang out with friends, more simply him wanting to live his life, and so she who can't handle losing that control over him breakes, and takes her own life But, what if things were darker than what meets the eye? Now granted, every person reacts differently to a stressful situation, but, at least in my experience, people who are obessed with control (generally) do NOT want to die, in fact they fear death far more than most, because death equates to loosing control over their targets and over themselves. With that in mind, what if Kakeru's mom never intended to take her own life? What if her intention was to get just close enough to an attempted suicide that it would make Kakeru feel extream guilt over disobeying her? She would even have a suicide not to prove her attempt, but things went terribly wrong. What makes this scenarion even more tragic i think is that Kakeru would've had an even worse outcome had she survived Orange shows how having a good support system can get you thru the darkest of times by showing 2 differnt scenarios of the same situation, one in which Kakeru get's absorbed into yet another toxic relationship with Ueda who again controls and isolates him, and one in which he has friends who look out for him, but the second scenario would've been near impossible to achieve had his mom survived, as the fear of her trying to take her own life again would've been too strong, ultimately isolating Kakeru even further from the outside world On a side note, a friend mentioned to me how it'd be implausible for the group of friends to let Kakeru tag along on the first day having all received the letter, but, if i have to be honest, i don't think them not inviting him would've made any difference, if his mom didn't have a medical appointment, she would've just found another excuse to keep him from going out, hence by inviting him at a leter date they're not avoiding the situation, they're just postponing the inevitable |
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Reply to SorryNT
DigiCat said:
Very obviously spoilers ahead, and very obviously talking about themes of suicide, which if you're uncomfortable with said topic, i assume you did your due diligence and researched this series before hand and didn't watch it
That said, onto the theory (i am sorry in advanced if some things come off as very blunt, i am incapable of sugarcoating anything)
I'll start with my initial interpretation of things just after i completed the series, vvThis was in response to another thread
Well, a year after watching the anime, and having reflected on my own personal experience with a toxic parent, it got me thinking, what if the tragedy that is Orange is far darker than what meets the eye?
So, we all know how the catalist for Orange's events is Kakeru's mom's suicide, and, while that is of course very tragic, it is also undeniable that Kakeru had a very toxic relationship with his mom, with her being extreamly controlling and constantly gaslighting, guilt-tripping and isolating him, this is made even more evident when he later get's into a toxic relationship with Ueda, basically being drawn to the patterns he's familier with
Now, what pushes Kakeru's mom over the edge is the loss of that control, it's Kakeru's refusal to listen to her, him wanting to participate in clubs in school, him wanting to hang out with friends, more simply him wanting to live his life, and so she who can't handle losing that control over him breakes, and takes her own life
But, what if things were darker than what meets the eye? Now granted, every person reacts differently to a stressful situation, but, at least in my experience, people who are obessed with control (generally) do NOT want to die, in fact they fear death far more than most, because death equates to loosing control over their targets and over themselves. With that in mind, what if Kakeru's mom never intended to take her own life? What if her intention was to get just close enough to an attempted suicide that it would make Kakeru feel extream guilt over disobeying her? She would even have a suicide not to prove her attempt, but things went terribly wrong. What makes this scenarion even more tragic i think is that Kakeru would've had an even worse outcome had she survived
Orange shows how having a good support system can get you thru the darkest of times by showing 2 differnt scenarios of the same situation, one in which Kakeru get's absorbed into yet another toxic relationship with Ueda who again controls and isolates him, and one in which he has friends who look out for him, but the second scenario would've been near impossible to achieve had his mom survived, as the fear of her trying to take her own life again would've been too strong, ultimately isolating Kakeru even further from the outside world
On a side note, a friend mentioned to me how it'd be implausible for the group of friends to let Kakeru tag along on the first day having all received the letter, but, if i have to be honest, i don't think them not inviting him would've made any difference, if his mom didn't have a medical appointment, she would've just found another excuse to keep him from going out, hence by inviting him at a leter date they're not avoiding the situation, they're just postponing the inevitable
Very obviously spoilers ahead, and very obviously talking about themes of suicide, which if you're uncomfortable with said topic, i assume you did your due diligence and researched this series before hand and didn't watch it
That said, onto the theory (i am sorry in advanced if some things come off as very blunt, i am incapable of sugarcoating anything)
I'll start with my initial interpretation of things just after i completed the series, vvThis was in response to another thread
DigiCat said:
^^100% this, well said
She is the definition of a toxic mother, guit tripping, gaslighting, and isolating Kakeru, all in the name of controll
I will add though, i think more than the punishment aspect of it, she did it also out of her own fear of loosing controll over him, seeing that he was capable of standing up to her after years of being under her thumb
As for her final message, yes on the surfice it can seem like a redemption arc, with the directing and emotional OST, but let's not forget... this is the message that pushes Kakeru over the edge resulting in his suicide, and considering her behavioural pattern, i don't think she was completely ignorant of this possible outcome, after all, the flashbacks are quite telling, Kakeru was likely depressed way before her suicide, looking at it this way, rather than a redemption arc, it can be seen as her last attempt at controll
I understand she was mentally ill, but i also understand mental illness should NEVER be used as an excuse to mistreat others, especially not children
^^100% this, well said
She is the definition of a toxic mother, guit tripping, gaslighting, and isolating Kakeru, all in the name of controll
I will add though, i think more than the punishment aspect of it, she did it also out of her own fear of loosing controll over him, seeing that he was capable of standing up to her after years of being under her thumb
As for her final message, yes on the surfice it can seem like a redemption arc, with the directing and emotional OST, but let's not forget... this is the message that pushes Kakeru over the edge resulting in his suicide, and considering her behavioural pattern, i don't think she was completely ignorant of this possible outcome, after all, the flashbacks are quite telling, Kakeru was likely depressed way before her suicide, looking at it this way, rather than a redemption arc, it can be seen as her last attempt at controll
I understand she was mentally ill, but i also understand mental illness should NEVER be used as an excuse to mistreat others, especially not children
Well, a year after watching the anime, and having reflected on my own personal experience with a toxic parent, it got me thinking, what if the tragedy that is Orange is far darker than what meets the eye?
So, we all know how the catalist for Orange's events is Kakeru's mom's suicide, and, while that is of course very tragic, it is also undeniable that Kakeru had a very toxic relationship with his mom, with her being extreamly controlling and constantly gaslighting, guilt-tripping and isolating him, this is made even more evident when he later get's into a toxic relationship with Ueda, basically being drawn to the patterns he's familier with
Now, what pushes Kakeru's mom over the edge is the loss of that control, it's Kakeru's refusal to listen to her, him wanting to participate in clubs in school, him wanting to hang out with friends, more simply him wanting to live his life, and so she who can't handle losing that control over him breakes, and takes her own life
But, what if things were darker than what meets the eye? Now granted, every person reacts differently to a stressful situation, but, at least in my experience, people who are obessed with control (generally) do NOT want to die, in fact they fear death far more than most, because death equates to loosing control over their targets and over themselves. With that in mind, what if Kakeru's mom never intended to take her own life? What if her intention was to get just close enough to an attempted suicide that it would make Kakeru feel extream guilt over disobeying her? She would even have a suicide not to prove her attempt, but things went terribly wrong. What makes this scenarion even more tragic i think is that Kakeru would've had an even worse outcome had she survived
Orange shows how having a good support system can get you thru the darkest of times by showing 2 differnt scenarios of the same situation, one in which Kakeru get's absorbed into yet another toxic relationship with Ueda who again controls and isolates him, and one in which he has friends who look out for him, but the second scenario would've been near impossible to achieve had his mom survived, as the fear of her trying to take her own life again would've been too strong, ultimately isolating Kakeru even further from the outside world
On a side note, a friend mentioned to me how it'd be implausible for the group of friends to let Kakeru tag along on the first day having all received the letter, but, if i have to be honest, i don't think them not inviting him would've made any difference, if his mom didn't have a medical appointment, she would've just found another excuse to keep him from going out, hence by inviting him at a leter date they're not avoiding the situation, they're just postponing the inevitable
This a written story not some real life shit wym never intended to have there death a certain way whatever u see is portrayed thats it 😂
| @SorryNT I mean, stories are generally inspired by real life experiences in one way or another so i wouldn't really seperate them from the "real life shit", either way, it was just a theory, don't see any reason to get so uptight about it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
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Reply to Lichikal
I dont know for sure if her intention wasnt to actually succeed in an attempt, but i think that if she felt as she really doesnt have control about her son at all anymore, she mightve been desperate enough to think something like "its useless, there is no point anymore", hence the "extreme" reation of attempting
| @Lichikal Agreed, that was the first conclusion i got to straight after watching, i do enjoy analysing the characters phyche though and theorizing what the different possibilities could be |
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Reply to nashmakineta
Kind of makes sense. There is a kind of narcissistic behavior that involves the person victimizing themselves.
So, assuming Kakeru's mom were a "victim narcissist" by the book, that would totally hit the mark.
The mom would be totally dominated by her narcissistic disorder, where she would play the victim and interpret roles just to control the boy.
Sadly this thing happens here and there. As Robert Kiyosaki says, successful parents are more likely to produce successful children or at least children have chances to absorb great things at home. Whereas the contrary is also true for unsuccessful parents, producing children that are more likely to have a low, disadvantageous start.
I strongly view the situation that when you're a child, what you see at home you think that is normal as that is your only/closest reference. When you get married, or get close friends and go over to their home, etc, you will start to take some perspective as you start having other references.
Therefore Kakeru's background is pretty dark and he is rather likely not to find the light as his view of the world is deeply influenced by his household. That is why the approaches to him need to be as constant and close as possible, in order to try to give him some other references on how to see the world.
So, assuming Kakeru's mom were a "victim narcissist" by the book, that would totally hit the mark.
The mom would be totally dominated by her narcissistic disorder, where she would play the victim and interpret roles just to control the boy.
Sadly this thing happens here and there. As Robert Kiyosaki says, successful parents are more likely to produce successful children or at least children have chances to absorb great things at home. Whereas the contrary is also true for unsuccessful parents, producing children that are more likely to have a low, disadvantageous start.
I strongly view the situation that when you're a child, what you see at home you think that is normal as that is your only/closest reference. When you get married, or get close friends and go over to their home, etc, you will start to take some perspective as you start having other references.
Therefore Kakeru's background is pretty dark and he is rather likely not to find the light as his view of the world is deeply influenced by his household. That is why the approaches to him need to be as constant and close as possible, in order to try to give him some other references on how to see the world.
nashmakineta said: Sadly this thing happens here and there Tell me about it 💀 nashmakineta said: I strongly view the situation that when you're a child, what you see at home you think that is normal as that is your only/closest reference. When you get married, or get close friends and go over to their home, etc, you will start to take some perspective as you start having other references Very true, it's extreamly hard to realize that what one perceives as normal is actually wrong without having outside references, unfortuantely even getting married/in a relationship doesn't always give that fresh perspective that can wake someone up as humans are psychologically inclined to seek out what is familier, as we see is the case with Kakeru's relationship with Ueno I'd say the earlier one can find different points of reference, the better chance they have of getting out of a shitty situation, i'd also add along with what you mentioned, even something as simple as TV can help with that with the access to the right content, at least i know that helped me a lot growing up |
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Reply to Liz-s-vd
I think you're right. The only thing that comes across in my opinion from her farewell message is that she doesn't want to appear like a bad mother. A loving parent, after such a traumatic experience for their own child, would first and foremost consider the child's well-being, instead of indirectly blaming the child for the suicide.
Throwing away the shoes, in particular, to prevent future bullying seems to me like an excuse for her need for control.
The message in which she asked him to come home as soon as possible also seemed odd to me. Suicidal thoughts develop over time and don't usually appear suddenly without any prior history. Perhaps her original plan was for Kakeru to find her just in time? And then he didn't want to come home, which ruined her plan?
Throwing away the shoes, in particular, to prevent future bullying seems to me like an excuse for her need for control.
The message in which she asked him to come home as soon as possible also seemed odd to me. Suicidal thoughts develop over time and don't usually appear suddenly without any prior history. Perhaps her original plan was for Kakeru to find her just in time? And then he didn't want to come home, which ruined her plan?
| @Liz-s-vd Yes, a lot of her behaviours reek of control, the shoes being a great example Very interesting theory that she was planning to time it so he'd find her just in time, this would indicate premeditation in the attempt, as if it was going to be her next step in tightening her control over Kakeru regardless of if he'd disobeyed her or not |
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