Kantai Collection and Naval History (Potentially Spoilers)

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Jul 2014

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No please, I don't want the Nightmare of Solomon to happen. Unless i see Kai 2, then it's kinda worth.

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Jan 15, 2015 2:35 AM

#3

Magito

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What is the Nightmare of Solomon?

Jan 15, 2015 2:38 AM

#4

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Magito said:
What is the Nightmare of Solomon?

spoiler for a certain ship, read at your own risk

Your honor, I never wrote this post.

Jan 15, 2015 3:39 AM

#5

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Okashi_sama said:

Magito said:
What is the Nightmare of Solomon?

spoiler for a certain ship, read at your own risk

When a good part of her rigging was destroyed and she was losing steam power, her captain even ordered his crew to use whatever sheets and linen they could find in order to create a sail so that the ship could still move. You can see that white sail on her Kai 2 design.

Yuudachi was kinda hardcore.

Jan 15, 2015 3:43 AM

#6

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Amarrez said:
Yuudachi was kinda hardcore.

That's why she's my favorite.

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Jan 15, 2015 5:42 AM

#7

Magito

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Okashi_sama said:

Magito said:
What is the Nightmare of Solomon?

spoiler for a certain ship, read at your own risk

Oh. We might see that.

Thank you for answering. Google was giving me inaccurate results.

Jan 15, 2015 11:05 AM

#8

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Don't forget about Fubuki torpedoing 5 of her own ships at Sunda Strait. Including a Lt. General on one of the ships.

"Baka, baka!"
"Sumimasen!"

Jan 15, 2015 11:31 AM

#9

Setherzam

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Amarrez said:

When a good part of her rigging was destroyed and she was losing steam power, her captain even ordered his crew to use whatever sheets and linen they could find in order to create a sail so that the ship could still move. You can see that white sail on her Kai 2 design.

Yuudachi was kinda hardcore.

There's a bit of bad blood about that white sheet thing. Yuudachi is actually known as a one of the most dishonroable ships by the USN because they took the white sheets as a sign of surrender and ignored the yuudachi, then got really pissed off when the Yuudachi started firing on them after what they took as waving the white flag. So then they blew it to hell.

Jan 15, 2015 11:33 AM

#10

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Setherzam said:

Amarrez said:

When a good part of her rigging was destroyed and she was losing steam power, her captain even ordered his crew to use whatever sheets and linen they could find in order to create a sail so that the ship could still move. You can see that white sail on her Kai 2 design.

Yuudachi was kinda hardcore.

There's a bit of bad blood about that white sheet thing. Yuudachi is actually known as a one of the most dishonroable ships by the USN because they took the white sheets as a sign of surrender and ignored the yuudachi, then got really pissed off when the Yuudachi started firing on them after what they took as waving the white flag. So then they blew it to hell.

I like Yuudachi more now.

Your honor, I never wrote this post.

Jan 15, 2015 2:55 PM

#11

Hoppy

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#Don'tSinkKisaragi

Do not want no matter how accurate it would be.

Jan 15, 2015 5:13 PM

#12

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Wonder how Fubuki would react if she saw this? (Akagi, Kaga, and Soryu)

MeatwadsanJan 16, 2015 12:12 PM

Jan 15, 2015 5:25 PM

#13

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The US pilots were also surprised at the Japanese habit of painting the rising sun at the bow of their flight decks, which made them easy to spot and gave them a reliable target to aim their bombsights at. The Japanese realized this after Midway and stopped doing it.

Jan 15, 2015 5:57 PM

#14

potplant

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It's not that Japanese realised it, they knew exactly what it does and were not doing it just because. The purpose of the hinomaru is to aid identification from air (similar to other navies that paint BB turret tops with colours) - the intended audience is IJN's own aircrafts so they don't mistake their own. This is useful with assumed air superiority. However once that is lost post Midway, of course IJN then removed it. Similar to how the Italians painted their ships with red/white air identification bands - on the assumption of Italian fleet doctrine ships will not wander far from shore therefore within land based aircraft coverage. Different operational conditions require different responses is all there is to it.

Jan 15, 2015 6:33 PM

#15

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potplant said:
It's not that Japanese realised it, they knew exactly what it does and were not doing it just because. The purpose of the hinomaru is to aid identification from air (similar to other navies that paint BB turret tops with colours) - the intended audience is IJN's own aircrafts so they don't mistake their own. This is useful with assumed air superiority. However once that is lost post Midway, of course IJN then removed it. Similar to how the Italians painted their ships with red/white air identification bands - on the assumption of Italian fleet doctrine ships will not wander far from shore therefore within land based aircraft coverage. Different operational conditions require different responses is all there is to it.

Absolutely, although post-Midway, Yamamoto himself said it was then that he realized how overwhelmingly dominant air power had become as opposed to surface strength, and how quickly the tactical advantage can shift, even with air superiority, which was wholly in the IJN's favor for most of the engagement. He didn't want to chance any further battles to luck, which was on the US side at Midway, in scouting the Japanese first, the timely arrival of the dive bombers overhead while Nagumo's combat air patrol was at low altitude wiping out the torpedo bombers, and catching the Japanese planes being rearmed with exposed fuel lines and munitions. Thus, Yamamoto decided to remove every potential advantage they could for the US from his side, including the hinomaru, and developing new camouflage colors schemes, such as the new deck camouflage for Shokaku and Zuikaku. Even the US used to paint their turrets red too. The difference would be that the US noticed this aerial disadvantage sooner, with the last ship sporting aerial identification markings notably being the USS Arizona. Subsequent vessels, including US CVs and BBs would avoid any of the markings, instead opting for black deck numbering on top of their camouflage.

Jan 15, 2015 7:22 PM

#16

potplant

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Midway was a tactical blunder by the IJN. The 'luck' ran out when their code was cracked. Japanese thought they had the air superiority on the assumption their attack had the surprise factor, but due to their plan being known in advance and the preparation US had, numerically it was more parity (if adding all the land based aircraft US devoted throughout the engagement, they had a slight edge over the IJN total) though IJN still has the qualitative advantage in terms of experienced crew and slightly better aircraft. Had Yamamoto known about the code, he would definitely have abandoned the operation as the risk is too great. Throughout the day, pocket US army bombers had attacked the carrier fleet more than 3 times - with each time the deck had to be cleared and CAP/fighter mustered to meet the threat. The decision to press ahead was the mistake as it is obvious that US had known about IJN plan by then - you don't wander randomly into multiple air attacks in the ocean. The fateful 5 min was somewhat sensationalised by Broken Sword and contributed to the sense of luck. There was some 20-30 min interval between the torpedo attack and dive bomber attack - though by that time the Japanese CAP fighters were mostly low on fuel and ammunition and were in the process of being resupplied when the dive bomber arrived.

Jan 15, 2015 8:03 PM

#17

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A significant tactical blunder, but you can't really fault them. Too many unknown variables. The US numerical advantage in aircraft was an illusion though. The USAAF's bombers were high-altitude and missed all their bombs, with the IJN ships easily maneuvering to dodge. The Brewster Buffalos and Wildcat fighters were also terribly obsolete compared to the Japanese Zero. The US fighters only put up a reasonably good CAP due to the US advantages in radar to vector in interceptors further out. The Devastator torpedo bombers were slow and unreliable. Nearly all the Buffalos and Devastators were shot down, and all the aircraft aside from the Dauntless dive bombers failed to score any hits. The Akagi, Kaga, and Soryu's CAPs were low on ammo and fuel, but the Soryu and Hiryu had just launched a fresh CAP, albeit still at low altitude. They managed to down a handful of Dauntlesses that had completed their bombing runs though. There was also the matter of scouting. The intelligence advantage was huge for the US, but you still had to precisely locate the enemy to deliver the attack. The US aircraft were more heavily armored to protect the pilots, which limited their range, while the Japanese aircraft didn't. Thus, detecting the enemy to get within striking range was crucial. In fact, the US launched their planes at maximum range to take advantage of spotting the Japanese first, so the fighter escort had to turn back due to fuel, resulting in heavy torpedo bomber losses. The Tone's seaplane had a malfunction and was launched hours late, and by chance its assigned search sector was precisely where Spruance and Fletcher's TF16 and 17 were located. Meanwhile, the US PBYs had already spotted the IJN carrier force. Nagumo had suspicions that US ships were in the area, so he wisely kept his second strike wave loaded with torpedoes and armor-piercing bombs for US ships, but also by chance, the first Japanese strike had failed to knock out Midway's runways, proven when more land-based bombers came for his ships, so he had to rearm them with high-explosive bombs for a second attack. They suffered from more bad luck when the Tone's seaplane reported sighting US ships, but failed to mention any carriers. About 30 minutes later, he finally mentioned spotting 2 carriers, prompting Nagumo to switch the rearming of his planes back to anti-ship weapons in the hangar. All of this while they were still recovering their aircraft from the first Midway raid. That was when the first Devastators came in for their attack, and subsequently the Dauntlesses. The Dauntlesses themselves were another interesting story of luck. They had gotten split up from the torpedo bombers and lost, and only happened to find the Japanese fleet by following the destroyer Arashi, which was trying to catch up with the others after staying behind to try to sink the USS Nautilus, which had tried to torpedo Kirishima. They were also saved by the sacrifice of the torpedo bomber pilots. The conventional wisdom that both fleets adhered to for airstrikes was simultaneous torpedo and dive bomber attacks to maximize the opportunity. However, since the dive bombers had gotten lost, the Japanese fighters finished off the torpedo bombers, and then thought it was clear since there were no immediate dive bombers in the area, resulting in their CAP flying at deck level when the Dauntlesses arrived. Huge combination of really bad luck. Losing their 4 fleet carriers also meant losing those planes and veteran pilots too, as they had nowhere to land but the sea.

Jan 15, 2015 8:21 PM

#18

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As a side note, the US dive bombers also ended up with the advantage of making their dives out of the sun, as they were heading north-ish following Arashi. This blinded the Japanese AA gunners and the fighters climbing to intercept them. The US pilots began using this advantage in subsequent battles. The US pilots also had a habit of pulling out of their dives lower than usual to maximize bomb penetration, due to their armored cockpits, and this along with the noise generated by the perforated "swiss cheese" dive brakes/flaps (which improved accuracy and maneuvering while diving), led to the Japanese calling all the US dive bombers "helldivers" after the pre-war film of the same name. Just some interesting trivia. ^.^

Jan 15, 2015 8:29 PM

#19

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Another interesting note, the USAAF bombers were attacking from such a high altitude that when the Japanese Zeroes tried to intercept them, they realized they couldn't climb high enough.

Jan 16, 2015 8:28 AM

#20

Setherzam

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In general the IJN carrier doctrine made absolutely no sense. Especially the part about pilots not being transferred to other carriers or receiving new planes. You had the most experienced pilots flying outdated planes and situations like midway where one carrier was fine but had no pilots and the other carrier had pilots but could not launch planes so neither participated

Jan 16, 2015 3:12 PM

#21

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Dec 2013

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If they do show the Solomons Campaign, you can bet there will be a lot of ship sinking involved. After all, it's not called Ironbottom Sound over there for nothing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironbottom_Sound

MeatwadsanJan 16, 2015 3:17 PM

Jan 16, 2015 6:27 PM

#22

Wordsmith

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TheMeatwad said:
If they do show the Solomons Campaign, you can bet there will be a lot of ship sinking involved. After all, it's not called Ironbottom Sound over there for nothing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironbottom_Sound

Solomon's Campaign would mean Yuudachi Kai Ni kicking a sizable amount of ass... better equip a repair goddess on her.

I want Rambo in a mecha-suit with a laser-chainsaw gun that fires nuclear warheads, fighting the love-child of Predator, Alien, a group of Bangladeshi terrorists, and Satan. (Actually that would be a pretty sick show) - StopDropAndBowl

Jan 16, 2015 8:03 PM

#23

Stark700

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Question about the Kantai Collection game. Is it true that once a Kanmusu is dead/sunk, the end is permanent? They cannot be revived in anyways?

Jan 16, 2015 8:57 PM

#24

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I have my doubts they will show it though, since Fubuki does get sunk there as well. They'll have to use it as the last episode if they do, or steer clear of the history.

Jan 16, 2015 9:18 PM

#25

Hatate

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Mar 2014

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Stark700 said:
Question about the Kantai Collection game. Is it true that once a Kanmusu is dead/sunk, the end is permanent? They cannot be revived in anyways?

you can get them again at lvl 1
if it's an event kanmusu then maybe permanent

I still don't know if they're going to keep the series mostly SOL and without any deaths, or if they'll include some of the history.. or maybe include and alter it..

(Deliveries!)

Jan 16, 2015 9:34 PM

#26

Shigure

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Nov 2012

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Stark700 said:
Question about the Kantai Collection game. Is it true that once a Kanmusu is dead/sunk, the end is permanent? They cannot be revived in anyways?

Yes, a ship that sinks will be lost forever. There are in-game items called damage control that can bring back a ship back if they were to receive a fatal blow that would sink the ship. Otherwise, ships that sink are gone for eternity.

Jan 17, 2015 11:46 AM

#27

Setherzam

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Aug 2012

5

Stark700 said:
Question about the Kantai Collection game. Is it true that once a Kanmusu is dead/sunk, the end is permanent? They cannot be revived in anyways?

Yeah death is permanent in the game and each shipgirl has a specific sinking line lamenting the end

also for those who are interested in learning an amazing amount of useless WWII trivia I suggest reading this doujin series and the user comments
http://danbooru.donmai.us/pools/8262

SetherzamJan 18, 2015 2:15 AM

Jan 19, 2015 3:33 PM

#28

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Dec 2013

153

Interesting video from World of Warships about the USS Yorktown (CV-10) and the Essex-class carriers. Also shows the attack on Yamato during Operation Ten-Go about 2/3 of the way through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF1o9HHQkiA

Jan 19, 2015 6:13 PM

#29

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Sinking of the Yamato, and the dominance of air power after Pearl Harbor and Midway. Yamato stopped putting to sea after the loss of their 4 fleet carriers and most of their aircraft at Midway, due to lack of air cover. They participated in Sho-Go due to the concentration of most of their remaining air power, and Ten-Go as a suicide mission.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_uwOrrlKl0

MeatwadsanJan 19, 2015 6:17 PM

Jan 21, 2015 9:33 PM

#30

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IJN WWII Naval Statistics and Records

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/Japan/IJN/JANAC-Losses/index.html

Jan 21, 2015 9:47 PM

#31

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I remember reading about Battle of Midway,
a lot of ships were sunk. It was like four or five aircraft carrier,
including Akagi and Kaga.

Jan 21, 2015 9:49 PM

#32

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hivekiller said:
I remember reading about Battle of Midway,
a lot of ships were sunk. It was like four or five aircraft carrier,
including Akagi and Kaga.

Akagi, Kaga, Hiryuu and Souryuu.

Jan 21, 2015 10:14 PM

#33

kaimax

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Amarrez said:

hivekiller said:
I remember reading about Battle of Midway,
a lot of ships were sunk. It was like four or five aircraft carrier,
including Akagi and Kaga.

Akagi, Kaga, Hiryuu and Souryuu.

Yeah, only the First and 2nd Division from the Nagumo Kido Butai
Soryu being the first followed by Kaga, Akagi and lastly Hiryu. Mikuma also sank.

Visit this blog That I'm working with my friend
http://randomnessthing.com/

Jan 21, 2015 11:23 PM

#34

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"In the first six to twelve months of a war with the United States and Great Britain I will run wild and win victory upon victory. But then, if the war continues after that, I have no expectation of success." -Admiral Yamamoto Isoruku, Japanese Marshal Admiral, Commander-in-Chief, Combined Fleet (Rengo Kantai)

Note that the Battle of Midway, which historians consider to be the turning point of the Pacific War, occurred approximately six months after Pearl Harbor.

Jan 21, 2015 11:27 PM

#35

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TheMeatwad said:
"In the first six to twelve months of a war with the United States and Great Britain I will run wild and win victory upon victory. But then, if the war continues after that, I have no expectation of success." -Admiral Yamamoto Isoruku, Japanese Marshal Admiral, Commander-in-Chief, Combined Fleet (Rengo Kantai)

Note that the Battle of Midway, which historians consider to be the turning point of the Pacific War, occurred approximately six months after Pearl Harbor.

well it should be a turning point, a whole fleet was sunk.

Jan 21, 2015 11:39 PM

#36

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hivekiller said:

TheMeatwad said:
"In the first six to twelve months of a war with the United States and Great Britain I will run wild and win victory upon victory. But then, if the war continues after that, I have no expectation of success." -Admiral Yamamoto Isoruku, Japanese Marshal Admiral, Commander-in-Chief, Combined Fleet (Rengo Kantai)

Note that the Battle of Midway, which historians consider to be the turning point of the Pacific War, occurred approximately six months after Pearl Harbor.

well it should be a turning point, a whole fleet was sunk.

Not the whole fleet, just the Kido Butai, which was the most important component of the fleet.

Leyte Gulf was where the IJN was more or less wiped out.

Jan 21, 2015 11:43 PM

#37

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Apr 2014

1603

Amarrez said:

hivekiller said:

well it should be a turning point, a whole fleet was sunk.

Not the whole fleet, just the Kido Butai, which was the most important component of the fleet.

Leyte Gulf was where the IJN was more or less wiped out.

oh my bad, should not use the word whole fleet. But yeah, I was talking about Kido Butai, that consist of six aircraft carriers.

Leyte Gulf, is that the time the Japan losses around 30 ships?

Jan 21, 2015 11:48 PM

#38

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Dec 2013

153

Amarrez said:

hivekiller said:

well it should be a turning point, a whole fleet was sunk.

Not the whole fleet, just the Kido Butai, which was the most important component of the fleet.

Leyte Gulf was where the IJN was more or less wiped out.

Absolutely. The carriers and their aircraft were the most important part of the fleet, and over 90% of their strength was wiped out by the Battle of Midway and Battle of the Philippine Sea. The Solomons Campaign and Battle of Leyte Gulf wiped out most of their remaining surface ships, which really didn't pose a major threat to the US Navy overall at that point without aircraft carriers and experienced pilots. In fact, Admiral Kurita was so cautious in that battle due to his lack of air cover and the mauling that Musashi received from the relentless waves of hundreds of USN aircraft. Consider that by the time they arrived at Okinawa, the USN's Pacific Fleet had over 1500 ships and over 2500 planes. Hence, Yamato's suicide mission.

Jan 21, 2015 11:53 PM

#39

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1603

TheMeatwad said:

Amarrez said:

Not the whole fleet, just the Kido Butai, which was the most important component of the fleet.

Leyte Gulf was where the IJN was more or less wiped out.

Absolutely. The carriers and their aircraft were the most important part of the fleet, and over 90% of their strength was wiped out by the Battle of Midway and Battle of the Philippine Sea. The Solomons Campaign and Battle of Leyte Gulf wiped out most of their remaining surface ships, which really didn't pose a major threat to the US Navy overall at that point without aircraft carriers and experienced pilots. In fact, Admiral Kurita was so cautious in that battle due to his lack of air cover and the mauling that Musashi received from the relentless waves of hundreds of USN aircraft. Consider that by the time they arrived at Okinawa, the USN's Pacific Fleet had over 1500 ships and over 2500 planes. Hence, Yamato's suicide mission.

Any summary about the Ten-Go Operation? The Wikia is TL:DR lol

Jan 21, 2015 11:58 PM

#40

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hivekiller said:

TheMeatwad said:

Absolutely. The carriers and their aircraft were the most important part of the fleet, and over 90% of their strength was wiped out by the Battle of Midway and Battle of the Philippine Sea. The Solomons Campaign and Battle of Leyte Gulf wiped out most of their remaining surface ships, which really didn't pose a major threat to the US Navy overall at that point without aircraft carriers and experienced pilots. In fact, Admiral Kurita was so cautious in that battle due to his lack of air cover and the mauling that Musashi received from the relentless waves of hundreds of USN aircraft. Consider that by the time they arrived at Okinawa, the USN's Pacific Fleet had over 1500 ships and over 2500 planes. Hence, Yamato's suicide mission.

Any summary about the Ten-Go Operation? The Wikia is TL:DR lol

They tried to sail Yamato to Iwo Jima to use as a coastal battery. That involved navigating her through waters teeming with US forces. All she had in support were an accompaniment of destroyers.

It didn't go so well.

Jan 22, 2015 1:02 AM

#41

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153

Amarrez said:

hivekiller said:

Any summary about the Ten-Go Operation? The Wikia is TL:DR lol

They tried to sail Yamato to Iwo Jima to use as a coastal battery. That involved navigating her through waters teeming with US forces. All she had in support were an accompaniment of destroyers.

It didn't go so well.

To Okinawa. ^.^

Jan 22, 2015 1:26 AM

#42

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TheMeatwad said:

Amarrez said:

They tried to sail Yamato to Iwo Jima to use as a coastal battery. That involved navigating her through waters teeming with US forces. All she had in support were an accompaniment of destroyers.

It didn't go so well.

To Okinawa. ^.^

Ah, my bad, I was just going off memory.

Jan 22, 2015 2:26 AM

#43

Stark700

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131401

I have question about the abyssals. How did they come to exist? Are they...corrupted versions of the Kanmusu?

Jan 22, 2015 4:15 AM

#44