Carole & Tuesday Episode 2 Discussion

Apr 21, 2019 1:49 PM

#151

BRK25

Offline

Oct 2012

456

Natsuaki said:

BRK25 said:

Natsuaki said:

BRK25 said:

Natsuaki said:

Mythologically said:

MiiyoSon said:

Mythologically said:
Don't think I've cringed this much since those two volumes of Watamote I read a couple of weeks ago.

Why is that if you don't mind me asking?

I find the characters, so far, to be unrelatable walking stereotypes, so the whole drama aspect with the song at the end induced nothing but cringe. I just don't see why the show is trying to make me feel emotional when I've known these characters for like 30 minutes. The whole thing with the song randomly going viral in a day just added on to this.

While I don't like the word cringe used like this, I agree with the notion. It's a nice looking show, but so far it feels fairly generic.
All details that all just emphasize how special the two main girls are and how perfect of a match they are are almost getting a little obnoxious.
We don't see them putting any effort into training and improving their skills or them getting to work on a partnership with ups and lows - other than the scene in episode one when they were "tuning" to match the other, that was really cute - and see them acquire not just a million views, but a million likes. Within that short time seems way to unreasonable.
I mean, I'm aware this show isn't aiming at an Underdogs-working-their-way-up-with-talent-and-passion-trope many music shows like this follow, the first episode was pretty explicit about that, but it still feels unearned.
And it feels frustrating in a season with a show like Sarazanmai, a show that really feels fresh and engaging, if a lot less comprehensible, yet this is where everyone's eyes are.

And on that note, I completely understand this, and honestly agree. Watanabe has always been a guy who focused on style over substance and a huge focus on music that sometimes, the characters take a back seat. The world is vibrant, the music is varied, and there's 22 episode to go, but I doubt these characters are going to stick in our heads until episode 7 or 8 when they start performing and doing some ups and downs, practice writing lyrics and working on the melody will help create a moment.

Generally I'm not opposed to style over substance shows, I really enjoyed Space Dandy and absolutely loved Cowboy Bebop. But there has to be something I can gravitate towards. And in this case, neither this idea of the future neither the characters really do that for me.
I like the music, just not quite enough for it to cause an emotional response.
I have to ask though if you happen to know; What exactly was his involvement regarding the characters in Bebop? That show has one of the most charming recognizable casts in the history of Anime.
It's interesting too because going through his MAL page, I've had that exact problem with some other shows he was involved in, like Michiko to Hatchin and Zankyou no Terror.
Both shows I think have strong presentation and style but really weak characters and in Zankyou's case kind of a messy script as well.

Edit: didn't mean to imply Bebop had little substance, far from it. But it also has a ton of style.

To me, Watanabe is a fantastic director and knows how to make scenes have impact. I haven't watched Michiko despite knowing he worked on it, but did love Zankyou no Terror. I'll be honest, those characters were pretty shit and had little going for them, but the scenes they were involved in alongside the music still holds dear to my heart and something I'll get nostalgic listening to. And this is the problem I have with him sometimes.

Watanabe had Bebop and while he was working on these thoughts and scenes and cool moments, he was reigned in by Keiko Nobumoto who was considered the head of the script at the time. There are other screenwriters, notably Sadayuki Murai who worked on Perfect Blue's script. I can never be disappointed by the spectacle but if it wasn't for these writers going to work, and bringing Watanabe the idea of these characters problems or history, I doubt it would be as memorable. I'm sure those characters are in his head, but someone else came to fill int he gap from said cool moments.

Luckily, it seems the other director in this worked on Beck and the other writer happens to be heavily involved in drama screenwriting for live-action. There's a lot of evidence here to hint this won't be a disaster like Zankyou, but again, who knows what Watanabe will do for the sake of cool.

What I really liked about Zankyou no Terror was the atmosphere and mood along with a few really strong moments. I agree that the music was fantastic as well.
It's just where it ultimately went with the story and what it did with its characters to get there after a particularly strong and engaging first two episodes I was left disappointed with. Kind of reminds me of B The Beginning of all things.
And now that I think about it, just like Carole, Zankyou kind of also had the issue of setting up everything for a really big story told with pathos with characters too weak to carry it (although the script was weak as well in that case).

Mh, maybe Watanabe is one of those people who needs the right people to work with to put his strengths to good use? Kind of like how Tite Kubo is also said to be good at portraying really cool moents and imagery and just not that great at or even interested in telling a good story around that.
I kind of have a fascination for people with a savant talent like that.

Hm, I don't think it will be as much of a downfall as Zankyou was, but it didn't have as interesting of an opening to begin with. It just might turn out to be a series with less highs and lows but of similar quality overall.

Edited for some minor typos.

Zankyou's hyper real visuals, atmosphere and music was otherworldly and I wished Lisa and Five had bigger roles or readjusted roles because they weren't used right. It will hold a special place in my heart, but wondered if having twelve episodes and more writers would have made a huge difference. The blade runner special Watanabe did showed more cool moments and music going on, and not much plot. Regardless, we're going to have fun and probably go back to specific scenes for this show at the minimum since he still has the talent and the ears to make the scenes work.

He also has the backing of several individuals highly successful in their own right backing him so I'm hoping he smashes it out the park after having 30 years of experience in the business. Can't wait until it airs again

Apr 21, 2019 1:59 PM

#152

Devinitas

Treasure Hunter

Offline

Feb 2014

263

LiedElfen said:

Natsuaki said:

BRK25 said:

Natsuaki said:

BRK25 said:

Natsuaki said:

Mythologically said:

MiiyoSon said:

Mythologically said:
Don't think I've cringed this much since those two volumes of Watamote I read a couple of weeks ago.

Why is that if you don't mind me asking?

I find the characters, so far, to be unrelatable walking stereotypes, so the whole drama aspect with the song at the end induced nothing but cringe. I just don't see why the show is trying to make me feel emotional when I've known these characters for like 30 minutes. The whole thing with the song randomly going viral in a day just added on to this.

While I don't like the word cringe used like this, I agree with the notion. It's a nice looking show, but so far it feels fairly generic.
All details that all just emphasize how special the two main girls are and how perfect of a match they are are almost getting a little obnoxious.
We don't see them putting any effort into training and improving their skills or them getting to work on a partnership with ups and lows - other than the scene in episode one when they were "tuning" to match the other, that was really cute - and see them acquire not just a million views, but a million likes. Within that short time seems way to unreasonable.
I mean, I'm aware this show isn't aiming at an Underdogs-working-their-way-up-with-talent-and-passion-trope many music shows like this follow, the first episode was pretty explicit about that, but it still feels unearned.
And it feels frustrating in a season with a show like Sarazanmai, a show that really feels fresh and engaging, if a lot less comprehensible, yet this is where everyone's eyes are.

And on that note, I completely understand this, and honestly agree. Watanabe has always been a guy who focused on style over substance and a huge focus on music that sometimes, the characters take a back seat. The world is vibrant, the music is varied, and there's 22 episode to go, but I doubt these characters are going to stick in our heads until episode 7 or 8 when they start performing and doing some ups and downs, practice writing lyrics and working on the melody will help create a moment.

Generally I'm not opposed to style over substance shows, I really enjoyed Space Dandy and absolutely loved Cowboy Bebop. But there has to be something I can gravitate towards. And in this case, neither this idea of the future neither the characters really do that for me.
I like the music, just not quite enough for it to cause an emotional response.
I have to ask though if you happen to know; What exactly was his involvement regarding the characters in Bebop? That show has one of the most charming recognizable casts in the history of Anime.
It's interesting too because going through his MAL page, I've had that exact problem with some other shows he was involved in, like Michiko to Hatchin and Zankyou no Terror.
Both shows I think have strong presentation and style but really weak characters and in Zankyou's case kind of a messy script as well.

Edit: didn't mean to imply Bebop had little substance, far from it. But it also has a ton of style.

To me, Watanabe is a fantastic director and knows how to make scenes have impact. I haven't watched Michiko despite knowing he worked on it, but did love Zankyou no Terror. I'll be honest, those characters were pretty shit and had little going for them, but the scenes they were involved in alongside the music still holds dear to my heart and something I'll get nostalgic listening to. And this is the problem I have with him sometimes.

Watanabe had Bebop and while he was working on these thoughts and scenes and cool moments, he was reigned in by Keiko Nobumoto who was considered the head of the script at the time. There are other screenwriters, notably Sadayuki Murai who worked on Perfect Blue's script. I can never be disappointed by the spectacle but if it wasn't for these writers going to work, and bringing Watanabe the idea of these characters problems or history, I doubt it would be as memorable. I'm sure those characters are in his head, but someone else came to fill int he gap from said cool moments.

Luckily, it seems the other director in this worked on Beck and the other writer happens to be heavily involved in drama screenwriting for live-action. There's a lot of evidence here to hint this won't be a disaster like Zankyou, but again, who knows what Watanabe will do for the sake of cool.

What I really liked about Zankyou no Terror was the atmosphere and mood along with a few really strong moments. I agree that the music was fantastic as well.
It's just where it ultimately went with the story and what it did with its characters to get there after a particularly strong and engaging first two episodes I was left disappointed with. Kind of reminds me of B The Beginning of all things.
And now that I think about it, just like Carole, Zankyou kind of also had the issue of setting up everything for a really big story told with pathos with characters too weak to carry it (although the script was weak as well in that case).

Mh, maybe Watanabe is one of those people who needs the right people to work with to put his strengths to good use? Kind of like how Tite Kubo is also said to be good at portraying really cool moents and imagery and just not that great at or even interested in telling a good story around that.
I kind of have a fascination for people with a savant talent like that.

Hm, I don't think it will be as much of a downfall as Zankyou was, but it didn't have as interesting of an opening to begin with. It just might turn out to be a series with less highs and lows but of similar quality overall.

Edited for some minor typos.

I think it is way too early to say that the characters are too weak to carry the story of the show in the case of C&T, there have been only two episodes and the show will have 24 episodes so theyhave plenty of time to develop the characters and for the characters to become memorable and let an emotional impact that could stay in one's memory for life.

Fair enough, actually. I'd be happy to have my current impression proven to be just a slow start.

BRK25 said:

Natsuaki said:

BRK25 said:

Natsuaki said:

BRK25 said:

Natsuaki said:

Mythologically said:

MiiyoSon said:

Mythologically said:
Don't think I've cringed this much since those two volumes of Watamote I read a couple of weeks ago.

Why is that if you don't mind me asking?

I find the characters, so far, to be unrelatable walking stereotypes, so the whole drama aspect with the song at the end induced nothing but cringe. I just don't see why the show is trying to make me feel emotional when I've known these characters for like 30 minutes. The whole thing with the song randomly going viral in a day just added on to this.

While I don't like the word cringe used like this, I agree with the notion. It's a nice looking show, but so far it feels fairly generic.
All details that all just emphasize how special the two main girls are and how perfect of a match they are are almost getting a little obnoxious.
We don't see them putting any effort into training and improving their skills or them getting to work on a partnership with ups and lows - other than the scene in episode one when they were "tuning" to match the other, that was really cute - and see them acquire not just a million views, but a million likes. Within that short time seems way to unreasonable.
I mean, I'm aware this show isn't aiming at an Underdogs-working-their-way-up-with-talent-and-passion-trope many music shows like this follow, the first episode was pretty explicit about that, but it still feels unearned.
And it feels frustrating in a season with a show like Sarazanmai, a show that really feels fresh and engaging, if a lot less comprehensible, yet this is where everyone's eyes are.

And on that note, I completely understand this, and honestly agree. Watanabe has always been a guy who focused on style over substance and a huge focus on music that sometimes, the characters take a back seat. The world is vibrant, the music is varied, and there's 22 episode to go, but I doubt these characters are going to stick in our heads until episode 7 or 8 when they start performing and doing some ups and downs, practice writing lyrics and working on the melody will help create a moment.

Generally I'm not opposed to style over substance shows, I really enjoyed Space Dandy and absolutely loved Cowboy Bebop. But there has to be something I can gravitate towards. And in this case, neither this idea of the future neither the characters really do that for me.
I like the music, just not quite enough for it to cause an emotional response.
I have to ask though if you happen to know; What exactly was his involvement regarding the characters in Bebop? That show has one of the most charming recognizable casts in the history of Anime.
It's interesting too because going through his MAL page, I've had that exact problem with some other shows he was involved in, like Michiko to Hatchin and Zankyou no Terror.
Both shows I think have strong presentation and style but really weak characters and in Zankyou's case kind of a messy script as well.

Edit: didn't mean to imply Bebop had little substance, far from it. But it also has a ton of style.

To me, Watanabe is a fantastic director and knows how to make scenes have impact. I haven't watched Michiko despite knowing he worked on it, but did love Zankyou no Terror. I'll be honest, those characters were pretty shit and had little going for them, but the scenes they were involved in alongside the music still holds dear to my heart and something I'll get nostalgic listening to. And this is the problem I have with him sometimes.

Watanabe had Bebop and while he was working on these thoughts and scenes and cool moments, he was reigned in by Keiko Nobumoto who was considered the head of the script at the time. There are other screenwriters, notably Sadayuki Murai who worked on Perfect Blue's script. I can never be disappointed by the spectacle but if it wasn't for these writers going to work, and bringing Watanabe the idea of these characters problems or history, I doubt it would be as memorable. I'm sure those characters are in his head, but someone else came to fill int he gap from said cool moments.

Luckily, it seems the other director in this worked on Beck and the other writer happens to be heavily involved in drama screenwriting for live-action. There's a lot of evidence here to hint this won't be a disaster like Zankyou, but again, who knows what Watanabe will do for the sake of cool.

What I really liked about Zankyou no Terror was the atmosphere and mood along with a few really strong moments. I agree that the music was fantastic as well.
It's just where it ultimately went with the story and what it did with its characters to get there after a particularly strong and engaging first two episodes I was left disappointed with. Kind of reminds me of B The Beginning of all things.
And now that I think about it, just like Carole, Zankyou kind of also had the issue of setting up everything for a really big story told with pathos with characters too weak to carry it (although the script was weak as well in that case).

Mh, maybe Watanabe is one of those people who needs the right people to work with to put his strengths to good use? Kind of like how Tite Kubo is also said to be good at portraying really cool moents and imagery and just not that great at or even interested in telling a good story around that.
I kind of have a fascination for people with a savant talent like that.

Hm, I don't think it will be as much of a downfall as Zankyou was, but it didn't have as interesting of an opening to begin with. It just might turn out to be a series with less highs and lows but of similar quality overall.

Edited for some minor typos.

Zankyou's hyper real visuals, atmosphere and music was otherworldly and I wished Lisa and Five had bigger roles or readjusted roles because they weren't used right. It will hold a special place in my heart, but wondered if having twelve episodes and more writers would have made a huge difference. The blade runner special Watanabe did showed more cool moments and music going on, and not much plot. Regardless, we're going to have fun and probably go back to specific scenes for this show at the minimum since he still has the talent and the ears to make the scenes work.

He also has the backing of several individuals highly successful in their own right backing him so I'm hoping he smashes it out the park after having 30 years of experience in the business. Can't wait until it airs again

I wasn't a big fan of the plot changes Five brought with her, but I agree about Lisa. But the way they went about it just wasn't great.

She definitely deserved better.

I'd definitely be happy to see Carole and Tuesday turning out solid after this somewhat shaky foundation, although I'm cautious. I've just had to many shows I stuck with because they "will get better" and then they just didn't.

There is nothing terribly wrong with feeling lost, so long as that feeling precedes some plan on your part to actually do something about it. Too often a person grows complacent with their disillusionment, wearing their discomfort like a favorite shirt - Johnny C.

Apr 21, 2019 2:16 PM

#153

Devinitas

Treasure Hunter

Offline

Feb 2014

263

Mythologically said:
@BRK25 I disregarded everything else you've written because as I'm stating for the 3rd time now, I don't care about having a discussion. Maybe 5% of users that comment on these threads want to participate in discussions. The other 95%, including me, use these threads as outlets give their opinions on episodes. The only reason I'm still replying is that you fucking ignored my point every single time, and you're trying to slander me.

No, it doesn't make sense for Roddy to be there. Here is why:

Carole and Tuesday picked the specific music hall that Roddy is in to break in to
Roddy is there at the same time that they are breaking into it. I doubt the "Mars Immigration Memorial Hall" is his permanent workplace. As I understand it, Roddy is the personal engineer of the famous DJ guy. I really doubt they have the "Mars Immigration Memorial Hall" all to themselves.
Roddy isn't just some random music engineer, he happens to be a music engineer famous enough for a random video he uploaded to go viral

That's three really big coincidences. Anyway, I won't be responding to this thread any longer since this is a waste of time.

For someone who doesn't care about having a discussion you're being pretty persistent.

There is nothing terribly wrong with feeling lost, so long as that feeling precedes some plan on your part to actually do something about it. Too often a person grows complacent with their disillusionment, wearing their discomfort like a favorite shirt - Johnny C.

Apr 21, 2019 2:35 PM

#154