[SUGGESTIONS AND QUESTIONS]

Discount66 said:

Currently the clones disappear because Wookong uses them to ram into people. If it's not ramming, there's no rough collision. A punch is just a collision, rough on the target but not on the puncher.

For example, right now there's one JMA clone active cause there was no rough collision, but it did attack.

philtecturophy said:

But assume not using SS

Then there cannot be 2 JMA clones at a certain turn right? Coz if there is, then I think it perhaps has potential to be OP.
I mean from what you are saying, lets say at turn 1 JMA clone only do punching (unarm attack). Then in the next turn Wookong cast another JMA clone. Which means now there are 2 JMA clones. Then Wookong make 1 JMA clone punching, and the other do JMA action, then it basically double hit, 1 with totalActionEffect of JMA full charge (Wookong + Clone) where the clone will die after, the other doing another punch so that it can still remain active in the next turn for doing another punching at the side, and so on.

Is the above case possible based on what is in your mind in how Wookong works?

Target - - - JMA Clone - - - Wookong - - - JMA Clone - - - Shadow Servant

For a Timerus's far range:

If your character is Timerus and used a Long-Ranged weapon such as bow, the damage is the function of ShootingDistance. Maximum ShootingDistance is 500m. Therefore:
TotalActionEffectForSingleTarget=ceiling{TotalActionEffect x (1 - ((ShootingDistance/500) x (0.8 - 0.5) + 0.5)))}

ProbActionEffectForSingleTarget= (100 - (ShootingDistance/500) x 100) - TotalEvasionRate
where TotalEvasionRate is your enemy's TotalEvasionRate

Phileasson said:

If Shooting Distance > MaxDistance

ProbActionEffectForSingleTarget= (100 - (ShootingDistance/MaxDist) x (100 - m x 1.5 ) - TotalEvasionRate = (100 - (120/100) x (70) - TER = 16 - TER

Discount66 said:

While I agree with most points you make here, this feels weird to me. How does one still have a chance of hitting if it's over the max shooting distance?

There can also be an argument made for why you can't hit at max distance. For example, the travel time. The ranged attacks don't home in on their targets, meaning a longer travel time = more time to react = easier to dodge. And since it's already shot to max distance, that means it would be impossible to hit a target unless they weren't looking and stood still the entire time.

DamageReceived_AD = Enemy'sTotalActionEffect/ (0.03 x Level + 2)

DamageReceivedWithoutShield_AD = Enemy'sTotalActionEffect/ (0.03 x Level + 2)
TotalDamageReceived_AD = ReductionModifier/100 x DamageReceivedWithoutShield_AD

Phileasson said:
Dug through the guidebook a bit more to learn more and saw this one




Some things:

1. So if I understand right, with my bow the 500 would be 15 right? I can understand that a shortbow doesnt have that big of a range , but isnt that also a bit low? From what I found medieval shortbows had a range of around 90 m. Of course we are in a bit more primitive time and the beginner one isnt of the highest quality, but I would guess it would still be a lot mor than 15 m.

2. Also all the bows have the same range, which doesnt really make sense.

If you want I can research a bit for bow ranges and give you the sources to maybe alter the ranges?

3. Also not a complete fan of the functions as they are. Lets say we have a max range of 100 m and shoot from 10 m away. TAE is like 40

TotalActionEffect x (1 - ((ShootingDistance/maxDist) x (0.8 - 0.5) + 0.5))) = 40 x (1 - ((10/100) x 0.3 + 0.5))) = 40 x (1 - (0,53)) = 18,8

It doesnt really make sense, that at a distance of 10 m you only make half the damage. Maybe it would make more sense to implement a minimum distance for max damage, like half of the max Distance After that it should begin to fall off until it does like half damage at MaxDistance. Since you already have a lower hitrate at a distance I dont think both the damage and the hit probability should fall off so hard

4. Also
ProbActionEffectForSingleTarget= (100 - (100/100) x 100) - 9% = 0%

If the max range is 100 m and you shoot a target 100 m away you shouldnt be at 0% hit chance. If you are untrained than yeah, it may be 0%, but if the enemy is still in shooting range and you are a trained bowman you should sitll have a high chance to hit. I think something like this would make more sense:

m=Level=20

If Shooting Distance <= MaxDistance

ProbActionEffectForSingleTarget= (100 - (ShootingDistance/MaxDist) x (100 - m x 2) - TotalEvasionRate = (100 - (20/100) x (100-40) - TER = 88 - TER

If Shooting Distance > MaxDistance

ProbActionEffectForSingleTarget= (100 - (ShootingDistance/MaxDist) x (100 - m x 1.5 ) - TotalEvasionRate = (100 - (120/100) x (70) - TER = 16 - TER

The Level I think should play a big role in here, since more training -> more precise aim. There are also way to shoot above the max range, but than they arent that effective (shooting at a higher angle, pulling with more power but struggling to aim). With that there are also some nice way to think about some new skill to improve your aim ;)


Of course numbers can and probably should be tweaked a bit more, but that is my take on ranged combat :D

philtecturophy said:





Alright, thanks for the feedback, my previous formula is wrong, so I modified the formula. Thanks for the feedback.

So I google:
The farthest accurate shot in archery under World Archery conditions is 283.47 m (930.04 ft), achieved by Matt Stutzman (USA) at the TPC Craig Ranch, McKinney, Texas, USA on 9 December 2015

So Timerus at Level 99 we can say can have farthest accurate shot of 500 meter, nearly two times of that
While at level 1, farthest accurate will be 50 meter
So here is the formula



As for the probability, I checked, yes we can use your formula


Please check if these are all make sense, and let me know

Discount66 said:
Adding something to the "To think about list"

I suggest using a shield's properties in the calculations for DamageReceived_AD, rather than the Evasion Rate. This could be in the form of a multiplier, like how weapon modifiers work for damage.

The original calculation is this:


Instead, we could do:

Could even use the same values on shields as they already have. But instead of Shield S-EV we just use Shield S-RM.
But it would probably be better to tweak the numbers..

Thank you for coming to my TEDTalk.

philtecturophy said:
@Phileasson Alright thanks for the feedback, so here is the formula:



As for the probability:


I have done some checks and they seems to be fine, let me know if this is good at your end also, so then I will update the GuideBook

philtecturophy said:
@Phileasson

Wait, in your formula here, when your character reach level 50 and above, ProbActionEffectForSingleTarget always 100, is this realistic?
here:

ProbActionEffectForSingleTarget= (100 - (ShootingDistance/MaxDist) x (100 - Level x 2) - TotalEvasionRate = (100 - (20/100) x (100-50x2)) - TER = 100 - TER

-Yamato- said:
I feel like the current exp system incentivizes attacking too much, like if you just want to level up just go and attack as many people or enemies as possible but I think there should also be some merit to resolving fights or situations through other methods be it stuff like persuasion, strategy or stuff that goes a bit more in depth. Also that way it makes the player think more instead of just attack everything to gain exp.

Discount66 said:
Adding something to the "To think about list"

I suggest using a shield's properties in the calculations for DamageReceived_AD, rather than the Evasion Rate. This could be in the form of a multiplier, like how weapon modifiers work for damage.

The original calculation is this:


Instead, we could do:

Could even use the same values on shields as they already have. But instead of Shield S-EV we just use Shield S-RM.
But it would probably be better to tweak the numbers..

Thank you for coming to my TEDTalk.

philtecturophy said:
@Discount66 But I replied that in post 63 already :^)
Asking you whether you agree or not

-Yamato- said:
gemini be able to get more exp quickly since they can attack two targets in one turn

Discount66 said:

I was actually under the impression shields wouldn't give EV anymore :^)

Having shields give both seems kind of broken, lets go with only RM and not EV for Shields. Imo that'd be better and fit in the RP better too. If it's still too strong, we could make it that shields actually reduce EV. Then you'd have to choose between a shield, which significantly reduces damage, making you tankier but less mobile, or two-handed weapons for more damage :^)

philtecturophy said:


Agreed. That make sense since carrying shield should less mobile. But probably less not reduce Evasion anymore. But instead I will delete the S-EV in shop :^)

Discount66 said:
While we're looking at equipments anyways.

Imo, a bow is underpowered. Compared to a melee weapon, ranged weapons have a (much) higher chance of missing. Despite the range they have, there's nothing stopping someone from crossing the distance in one turn and still attack.

We should try to implement something to limit the amount of distance someone can move before they are allowed to attack (if they are in range). Of course, this means that spells would need a distance indicator as well. Of course if people think bows are fine as they are we can leave it as is.

Discount66 said:
While we're looking at equipments anyways.

Imo, a bow is underpowered. Compared to a melee weapon, ranged weapons have a (much) higher chance of missing. Despite the range they have, there's nothing stopping someone from crossing the distance in one turn and still attack.

We should try to implement something to limit the amount of distance someone can move before they are allowed to attack (if they are in range). Of course, this means that spells would need a distance indicator as well. Of course if people think bows are fine as they are we can leave it as is.

Phileasson said:


I dont think it is totally underpowered, im pretty much a newbie at level 2 with a pretty shit bow, of course theres a pretty high chance to miss, but also I get the Advantage that I can stay so far away, that a melee person trying to reach should give 1 turn to react where I can switch to a melee weapon myself or shoot one more time. I think as soon as I get a better bow + a melee weapon for an emergency switch it wont look so bad.

I think its more that melee and maybe spells (dont know about that one) are way to accurate. A newb fighter having an accuracy of 97/100 is kinda... high.
Theres always positives and negative, a possibility to balance it is to look at it like this (from a low level perspective)

Ranged Weapon: Accuracy ↓ Range ↑ (Hard to hit, enemy should take a turn to reach)
Magic: Accuracy ~ Range ~ (Not the same range possible as ranged weapons so can be reached in 1 turn, but far enough away that enemy has to take away its attention from the melee fighter)
Melee: Accuracy ↑ Range ↓ (Only possible melee range (duh), but high chance to hit --> Also normally gets targeted first)

It is something tha is a bit hard to balance, the harder you make it to hit enemies, the lower their hp has to be so that its a fair fight.

Discount66 said:

The thing is that there currently is nothing saying you have to take a turn to move, which means one can just run towards a ranger and hit them at the same time.

While it is somewhat common sense, it's also complicated to accurately tell what the procedure is without anything being set in stone.

My point that bows being underpowered was precisely because this wasn't yet mentioned in the guidebooks. With the advantage of range, I understand that it will then be more balanced. But because it's not yet there means bows have the disadvantage of range accuracy without the advantage of ranged distance.

Phileasson said:
post #86

Discount66 said:

While we can use general and realistic movement speeds, it's generally assumed that trained people are more capable of achieving higher speeds.

We can't just go off of averages here. Maybe average of Military for the Timerus in army. Adding to it that they are a mix of animals and humans, making them be able to achieve higher speeds than normal humans. Adding to it that a Timerus could be a turtle-humanoid and a jaguar-humanoid as well. This sets the differences between base speed too big.

There's also the problem with Nethecites. They are mutated animals. This means that they dont necessarily have the same stats as the animals we know. The humanoid nethecites. We don't have a way of checking the average of a goblin. Movement regarding other things such as climbing, swimming, treading high water. The movement speed here can all vary.

There's too many variables in play to make a "common sense" guess imo.

Lets say for instance we can say:
Map is 50 by 50
Artas in position x=3 y=6
He shoot enemy in position x=10 y=10
Then we use formula ceiling{sqrt[(y2-y1)^2 + (x2-x1)^2]} to calculate distance
Here it will be sqrt[(10-6)^2 + (10-3)^2] =9
So here Artas is 9 meters away from the enemy in Cartesian coordinate 2D plane

Artas in position x=3 y=6 z=10
He shoot enemy in position x=10 y=10 z=0
Then we use formula ceiling{sqrt[(y2-y1)^2 + (x2-x1)^2 + (z2-z1)^2]} to calculate distance
Here it will be sqrt[(10-3)^2 + (10-6)^2 +(0-10)^2] = 13
So here Artas is 13 meters away from the enemy in Cartesian coordinate 3D space

Turn 1: Garbrant at x=2 y=4 z=0
Then he moves by y+3

Turn 2: update your RPsheet: Gabrant at x=2 y=7 z=0

And so on....

Discount66 said:
My bad, I thought I brought this up during the Azazel/Ersylien weapons convo.

I thought Shortbows were going to be light weapons. Not necessarily one-handed, but I dont think a shortbow is a heavy weapon. The longbow would then be the standard heavy ranged weapon. :^)

Yuh lets actually remove alignment :^)

Now I want the players' opinions on this as well, but:
Currently the skill system is incredibly barebones. All skills can be summed up with "deals damage", without any special and unique traits.

I believe it'd be better if skills could be more.. creative. Example: You have an assassin-like character. Naturally, you want your character to deal more damage when assassinating. One way to do this is have your skill deal extra damage when you're attacking from the back.

This would allow characters to be able to fit into their role more :^)

Phileasson said:


I think skills should also be able (after discussion with phil) to influence different parameters (better hitchance, faster movement and stuff like that) instead of dealing damage

philtecturophy said:
@Discount66 @Phileasson
I think its good idea to improve what the skills can do.

ERSYLIEN AZAZEL
Currently the skills for Ersylien and Azazel can deal damage according to BaseEffect and also do buff and debuff. As soon as Ersylien Azazel reach level 5, they can make a skill that can do buff debuff. So I believe you guys already see the section GAINING NEW SKILLS in https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1934193#msg63641162 ?

Then also the STATUS CONDITIONS in https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1934193#msg63641172 .

For instance, Ersylien Azazel level 10 can make a skill that damage enemy and also debuff into grade 3 or buff grade 3

Ersylien or Azazel, Level 10, alignment > 30
UpperLimitBaseEffect=5 (human) , 6 (Etheric) || AEused= 1.2 x BaseEffect || MaxDistance=30 meter || Optional: Buff / Debuff < Grade 5 for UpperLimitBaseEffect=0, with AEused= BuffDebuffAEused

So they can cast protect and shell magic to friends since those magic are grade 2.
Also they can cast Blind (Grade 3) to enemy:

BLIND
Darkness clouds the unit's sight, rendering it blind. Remove with Eye Drops, Remedy, or status recovery Astral magic.
Hit rate of physical attacks decreases. [3 Turns] [Reduces 50% ProbActionEffect until the 3 turns end] [Grade: 3]

I think somehow there are already quite a lot that Ersylien and Azazel can do. But we can do something about Timerus though..

TIMERUS
Currently here is Timerus spec for creating new skills at level 10.
Timerus, Level 10, alignment > 30
UpperLimitBaseEffect=4 || MaxDistance=3 meter

Currently Timerus benefits from using various weapons as methods of their attacks, also they can buy throw items in Xing Bard that are very cheap like shuriken and magic ball that can be use as alternative attack methods.

Now I can create more skills for Timerus, such as in Final Fantasy Tactics. We can make several different categories that players can choose and the abilities will be available according to that category / class. Here are example of categories for Timerus:

KNIGHT
Break equipment: a knight can break the enemy's equipment using their swords with usually low probability around 20% to 30%, we can make these kind of skills for short ranged Timerus, breaking equipment skill.

THIEF
Steal: Also Timerus like Fangs who is a little bit tiny, they can still enemy's gils.

ARCHER
Charge: Delay of taking turn, but once taking turn, it shoots an arrow with devastating attack power

NINJA
Double attack: currently if you see Shensi ability, she can do double attack, only she can do that, coz this is a bit OP. But both weapons must be very weak weapon with low WeaponModifier like daggers, so cannot be swords, well except Shensi coz she is a General afterall.