Dude_Mike said: taken directly from the opening post game information:To be honest I don't have a clue what roles are even possible in this hidden setup. or even how many mafia we are up agent is there is any 3p players in it. Plus new to all you as players. So reads are going to be interesting lol Closed, non-bastard game. Mechanics madness, role madness. Conversions not allowed. Role changing allowed. ---- it's role madness, so probably anything thats not bastard or conversion related |
LucianRoy said: Could you elaborate a bit? Dude_Mike said: I would love to hear from you all how many wolfs you suspect are going to be in this setup. 3, 3, always 3. Unless the roles are HEAVY townsided, actually nvm, still 3. Maybe there's third party? Who knows? The latter speculation is useless, but I feel good with the estimate of 3 groupscum. 4 feels right for a 19 player game, not a 16 player game, but at the end of the day, I didn't balance this game so enh. @Phraze any reads from the thread so far? It feels a bit late for that rvs vote fmpov. if not rvs could be just a personal thing. both from same homesite, and Marlu seems annoying lol no actual reads since it could be ideology-biased. like, I'm agreeing with Kit and Lan for principle reasons. scrapping most of it |
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Phraze said: Marluxion said: not really i try to keep my posts short and concise so people can understand and follow my train of thought it's probably why i'm not mislynched very often for the shortness, u never got much of ur points across. anyways. what would u describe ur scum playstyle to be like? research purposes salty |
Kit said: you're good my overreaction was a bait anywayTainted said: my point was to show how awful his reasoning was, not to assume that he really would do that. but it was a bit harsh, I'm sorry @marluxionTbf for marluxion tho assuming he would defend some word usage of "rape" is pretty bad i'm here to win not argue and make enemies |
Marluxion said: tbf I've been the voice of reason as mafia, more often than as town. Kit also. this is... NAILucianRoy said: Could you elaborate a bit? 3, 3, always 3. Unless the roles are HEAVY townsided, actually nvm, still 3. Maybe there's third party? Who knows? The latter speculation is useless, but I feel good with the estimate of 3 groupscum. 4 feels right for a 19 player game, not a 16 player game, but at the end of the day, I didn't balance this game so enh. @Phraze any reads from the thread so far? It feels a bit late for that rvs vote fmpov. it should be obvious that re's post comes exclusively from a town agenda why would a mafia say that and not try to let the chaos continue |
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Phraze said: LucianRoy said: Could you elaborate a bit? 3, 3, always 3. Unless the roles are HEAVY townsided, actually nvm, still 3. Maybe there's third party? Who knows? The latter speculation is useless, but I feel good with the estimate of 3 groupscum. 4 feels right for a 19 player game, not a 16 player game, but at the end of the day, I didn't balance this game so enh. @Phraze any reads from the thread so far? It feels a bit late for that rvs vote fmpov. if not rvs could be just a personal thing. both from same homesite, and Marlu seems annoying lol no actual reads since it could be ideology-biased. like, I'm agreeing with Kit and Lan for principle reasons. scrapping most of it rude |
Phraze said: Marluxion said: tbf I've been the voice of reason as mafia, more often than as town. Kit also. this is... NAIit should be obvious that re's post comes exclusively from a town agenda why would a mafia say that and not try to let the chaos continue it's not nai it does point towards a town agenda also their line of reasoning has been clear and easy to follow, not convoluted or agenda-ridden |
Dude_Mike said: you are claiming VT in a role madness game? it's not impossible, but claiming VT also 1)outs PR due to process of elimination and 2) makes mafia want to keep you around so you are doing the opposite of baiting mafiaMy into was because as a VT best to use myself as bait to pull out Maifa worse case is I get lynched and town can use that info to help track Maifa. and better than makeing a real town PR roleclaim. Also since It will be hard for me to read anyone due to not knowing anyones meta here. |
Marluxion said: hmm.. fair enough.Phraze said: for the shortness, u never got much of ur points across. anyways. what would u describe ur scum playstyle to be like? research purposes salty Marluxion said: from this I take it ur homesite or the players u meet are far more hostile compared to hereoh you can't because you aren't town roger i'm not going to fall for an appeal to emotion you've got to appeal to my logical side if you want to buy my vote mr mafioso |
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Kit said: it was imperative to get an idea of his playstyle. and keep things from derailing.did you just fill in the blanks after saying no one would fill in the blanks? |
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Marluxion said: more like blunt. and I'm known for that.Phraze said: if not rvs could be just a personal thing. both from same homesite, and Marlu seems annoying lol no actual reads since it could be ideology-biased. like, I'm agreeing with Kit and Lan for principle reasons. scrapping most of it rude |
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Phraze said: hmm.. fair enough. Marluxion said: from this I take it ur homesite or the players u meet are far more hostile compared to hereoh you can't because you aren't town roger i'm not going to fall for an appeal to emotion you've got to appeal to my logical side if you want to buy my vote mr mafioso no everyone's pretty nice i'm just a turd |
you can have +0.5 towncoin for not caring what i think about you and speaking your mind that is all |
Marluxion said: Phraze said: tbf I've been the voice of reason as mafia, more often than as town. Kit also. this is... NAI it's not nai it does point towards a town agenda also their line of reasoning has been clear and easy to follow, not convoluted or agenda-ridden possible pocketing then? |
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Marluxion said: i wouldn't agree that it's "obvious" i just think RE wouldn't purposely use tactics that emotionally harm/offend other people in mafia game regardless of her alignment. i dont have any evidence that she's wolf but to base towniness on personal morals seems kind of flimsyit should be obvious that re's post comes exclusively from a town agenda why would a mafia say that and not try to let the chaos continue to answer your (rhetorical?) question, mafia would do it either because 1) they personally don't like the conversation or 2) to look good and make people town read them, or both |
Marluxion said: Phraze said: hmm.. fair enough. from this I take it ur homesite or the players u meet are far more hostile compared to here no everyone's pretty nice i'm just a turd hmm ok. guess u might have reason to suspect Geyde after all. |
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Marluxion said: Phraze said: more like blunt. and I'm known for that. you can have +0.5 towncoin for not caring what i think about you and speaking your mind that is all *laughs in yandere* |
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Marluxion said: LucianRoy said: Could you elaborate a bit? 3, 3, always 3. Unless the roles are HEAVY townsided, actually nvm, still 3. Maybe there's third party? Who knows? The latter speculation is useless, but I feel good with the estimate of 3 groupscum. 4 feels right for a 19 player game, not a 16 player game, but at the end of the day, I didn't balance this game so enh. @Phraze any reads from the thread so far? It feels a bit late for that rvs vote fmpov. it should be obvious that re's post comes exclusively from a town agenda why would a mafia say that and not try to let the chaos continue Ah yes, very obvious, I should've realized it earlier. Mmmm I call wifom, but that might be b/c I'm familiar with RE as a player. I wouldn't really put that much stock into it to begin with considering you're arguement with Lan wasn't something AI. Basically, it was an NAI semantic this semantics that topic so their comment on it is unltimately NAI. Is there anything else that pinged town from them? LanMisa said: Why do you ask this the person you are voting for? Why do you ask this a person who has never been in a game with me before? How do you sort reads? If I want to sort Kiana, wouldn't it make sense that I test the strength of their reads to see if they'd BS something or actually make a good one? You just so happen to have posted quite a bit, enough to proabably warrant something from Kiana. Touché |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
LucianRoy said: How do you sort reads? If I want to sort Kiana, wouldn't it make sense that I test the strength of their reads to see if they'd BS something or actually make a good one? You just so happen to have posted quite a bit, enough to proabably warrant something from Kiana. I tend to engage with people, try to pressure them, try to force them to interact with me. I guess I am a bit more aggressive in it. I also tend to ask them for their reads in general to see where their head is, instead of proposing a certain topic, at least at the beginning. And I tend to question them about their own posts they made that pinged me. Not saying your approach can't work, it's just an unusual one to me. |
LanMisa said: LucianRoy said: How do you sort reads? If I want to sort Kiana, wouldn't it make sense that I test the strength of their reads to see if they'd BS something or actually make a good one? You just so happen to have posted quite a bit, enough to proabably warrant something from Kiana. I tend to engage with people, try to pressure them, try to force them to interact with me. I guess I am a bit more aggressive in it. I also tend to ask them for their reads in general to see where their head is, instead of proposing a certain topic, at least at the beginning. And I tend to question them about their own posts they made that pinged me. Not saying your approach can't work, it's just an unusual one to me. It's still a bit too early for overall playerbase reads imo, I'd much rather pick someone and see something specific said about them, rather than general reads. Asking for specifics early game is best b/c you can catch scum off gaurd sometimes. Just look at Mar's explanation for his RE tr, it's garbo, but I'm hesitant to call him scum for it b/c of what I'm picking up on from his current disposition in the game. Your last thought is a given. Pressuring works for me sometimes, not all the time. I like to see substance before the real pushes. |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
Votecount 1.2 01010010 01101111 01111010 00100000 01110111 01100001 01101110 01110100 01100101 01100100 00100000 01100010 01101001 01101110 01100001 01110010 01111001 00100000 01110100 01110010 01100001 01101110 01110011 01101100 01100001 01110100 01101001 01101111 01101110 00101110 Marluxion (3) - RE, LanMisa, Geyde LanMisa (2) - Tainted, Marluxion Dude_mike (1) - Kit Karote (1) - yurkin Kiana_Kaslana (1) - LucianRoy Tainted (1) - Kiana_Kaslana Wary_Wolf (1) - Phraze yurkin (1) - Karote Not voting: DenjaX, Dude_Mike, ForgotToFlush, Kiiruma, Wary_Wolf Deadline is still 4 AM EST on Thursday, April 4th, with a 0-12 hour Twilight phase. Mod Notes: If 11 or more players message saying they want majority during the day in addition to plurality at end of day, I'll add it in. There once was a mod named Osie. He handed out warnings like candy. His dislike of toxicity led to high standards of civility. That crazy old mod named Osie. I just wanted to take one final opportunity to remind people why that higher standard exists. I know it can be difficult to live up to, especially in the heat of the moment... I know it is difficult and we're all only human. But the reward is a better site, a better community, and games where you actually want to sign up to the next one when the current game is done. People you actually look forward to playing with. Maybe even making friends. - Askthepizzaguy Geyde has requested replacement. Do NOT discuss replacements. @DenjaX @Dude_Mike @ForgotToFlush @Karote @Kiana_Kaslana @Kiiruma @Kit @LanMisa @LucianRoy @Marluxion @Phraze @RE @Tainted @yurkin |
| Had I the heavens’ embroidered cloths, Enwrought with golden and silver light, The blue and the dim and the dark cloths Of night and light and the half light, I would spread the cloths under your feet: But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams. - WB Yeats |
Kit said: I think if LanMisa is town, that's something that we could figure out more easily if they weren't hindered. Putting out the possibility that they'd use being hindered as an excuse before it's actually happened may just lead to further emotional-based play; rarely a good thing and can happen regardless of alignment. So detrimental to town.RE said: if its NAI does that mean this is within their wolf meta too? i'd expect tilt about the wording to happen either way but i have a feeling a wolf would approach it differently. but im not really familiar with lanmisa...Either way, it'd be NAI, because can confirm this is within their town meta. I could also be assuming incorrectly what yurkin meant there, but it felt like implication that they'd be scum if they were to claim being hindered later on. So I'd just say, if they were to become hindered due to whatever toxicity may happen, it would be genuine, and I'd likely read them as no less than neutral for it. |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
RE said: Well, more accurately, it probably wouldn't affect my read of them.So I'd just say, if they were to become hindered due to whatever toxicity may happen, it would be genuine, and I'd likely read them as no less than neutral for it. |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
| @LucianRoy Could you describe to me Kiana's play last game you were in with her, from start to end? And then tell me why her specifically? (If you've already explained, my bad.) |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
RE said: @LucianRoy Could you describe to me Kiana's play last game you were in with her, from start to end? And then tell me why her specifically? (If you've already explained, my bad.) The word 'aggressive' come to mind. Certainly in the beginning of the game, Kiana went off and was being quite productive. That tapered off a lot later in game due to my scum team, and myself in particular, playing around it. Definitely was spot on in their approach early game, but got mislead after slot changes, and matching aggressive play from other slots challenging their own. She def got complacent with the game, I think that was largely due to there being no flips, but that's just a theory. Why not her? I liked Kit's vote on Kiana for their RVS vote, see #105 past the dividing line. I kind of want to see where it goes, but at the same time, I don't feel like leaving my vote on someone who hasn't been that active yet. |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
LucianRoy said: Because there are other players with more presence in the thread you could focus on.The word 'aggressive' come to mind. Certainly in the beginning of the game, Kiana went off and was being quite productive. That tapered off a lot later in game due to my scum team, and myself in particular, playing around it. Definitely was spot on in their approach early game, but got mislead after slot changes, and matching aggressive play from other slots challenging their own. She def got complacent with the game, I think that was largely due to there being no flips, but that's just a theory. Why not her? Yep, she tapered off as town. So I'm a bit skeptical of you selecting her specifically, while knowing this. Because if she were to taper off, you could abuse that and hover on her rather than make do with the rest of the thread. But I'll keep on observing ^^ |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
RE said: My words exactly, and you're right.LucianRoy said: Because there are other players with more presence in the thread you could focus on.The word 'aggressive' come to mind. Certainly in the beginning of the game, Kiana went off and was being quite productive. That tapered off a lot later in game due to my scum team, and myself in particular, playing around it. Definitely was spot on in their approach early game, but got mislead after slot changes, and matching aggressive play from other slots challenging their own. She def got complacent with the game, I think that was largely due to there being no flips, but that's just a theory. Why not her? |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
| I'm actually going to go out on a bit of a limb just to be productive. RE said: 1 scum in LanMisa and Marluxion is my guess so far. I think Marl is grasping at straws currently. But I'm also going to observe LanMisa, since a game with them recently ended where they were obvious town but I was blind to it due to different playstyle. This post irks me in all the wrong ways. A) because I have no idea how RE came to the conclusion Lan vs. Mar is t/w or w/t. Their argument wasn't even about anything AI, it was just early game semantics clash. B) I wrote in my notes to keep tabs on RE for this post because Iirc RE has the ability to hedge votes on players as scum very subtly, don't quote me on this. On a completely, (mmhhmm), unrelated note, RE, were we on a scumteam together in a game circa spring/summer two or three years ago? Kit was there too playing as town if my memory serves me correctly. We also won, and you may or may not have repped in. RE's TR on Yurkin in #133 feels very free. No explanation either, but I'm assuming it's meta related. That's not my main point tho, the way they try to draw an associative off me and Yurkin gives me bad vibes too. Like, the way they work off the conditional of me flipping scum being the prime way they'll reconsider their read. Not the biggest fan of what sounds like a TR being bulletproof within the first 5 pages. And then she missteps a bit logicially: "oh, and the only way to test that is to lynch Lucian, Lucian before Yurkin obv lolol," but the ends don't justify the means because the associative read is vapid to begin with, and it's working off the assumption one of us has to be scum. Very cart before the horse, and the path isn't town!logic imo. Similarly, in #225 wishy washy wording around Lanmisa. Notice the use of If, working off of more conditionals I see, and feels stanceless where there should be one, like, yes you read it neutral, but where are the thoughts other parts of their play? Given all this, the Geyde heck thing in their #62 was kind of a reach in hindsight, but that's neither here nor there since it was pretty much still RVS. ____ Another side note: Lan and Mar are still crossvoting eachother despite Lan never adressing Mars' original reasoning, and Mar not pushing it, correct? What gives. |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
| Oh yeah, and Vote: RE |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
RE said: none of this answered my question though... i didn't ask about yurkin pushing lan about being hindered, i asked about your thoughts on lan before the comment by yurkin was madeKit said: I think if LanMisa is town, that's something that we could figure out more easily if they weren't hindered. Putting out the possibility that they'd use being hindered as an excuse before it's actually happened may just lead to further emotional-based play; rarely a good thing and can happen regardless of alignment. So detrimental to town.if its NAI does that mean this is within their wolf meta too? i'd expect tilt about the wording to happen either way but i have a feeling a wolf would approach it differently. but im not really familiar with lanmisa... I could also be assuming incorrectly what yurkin meant there, but it felt like implication that they'd be scum if they were to claim being hindered later on. So I'd just say, if they were to become hindered due to whatever toxicity may happen, it would be genuine, and I'd likely read them as no less than neutral for it. |
LucianRoy said: "IIRC" - which game are you referencing?RE said: 1 scum in LanMisa and Marluxion is my guess so far. I think Marl is grasping at straws currently. But I'm also going to observe LanMisa, since a game with them recently ended where they were obvious town but I was blind to it due to different playstyle. This post irks me in all the wrong ways. A) because I have no idea how RE came to the conclusion Lan vs. Mar is t/w or w/t. Their argument wasn't even about anything AI, it was just early game semantics clash. B) I wrote in my notes to keep tabs on RE for this post because Iirc RE has the ability to hedge votes on players as scum very subtly, don't quote me on this. I can explain further, if you'd like. I found Marl scum because of his approach to the thread (I reiterated through agreeing with yurkin's commentary on Marl.) I also found his push of LanMisa to be grasping at straws (making something out of nothing, but more importantly, pretending it was stronger than it actually was and continuing with the push.) However, it's happened before that I've ended up scumreading town for reasoning accompanying an accurate read. While I may not agree with Marl's reasons for scumreading LanMisa, it's also possible that they are right and I'm just not seeing it. Therefore, 1 scum between them, due to my read on Marl as well as an attempt at hindsight. On a completely, (mmhhmm), unrelated note, RE, were we on a scumteam together in a game circa spring/summer two or three years ago? Kit was there too playing as town if my memory serves me correctly. We also won, and you may or may not have repped in. We never scummed together, I don't think.RE's TR on Yurkin in #133 feels very free. No explanation either, but I'm assuming it's meta related. That's not my main point tho, the way they try to draw an associative off me and Yurkin gives me bad vibes too. Like, the way they work off the conditional of me flipping scum being the prime way they'll reconsider their read. Not the biggest fan of what sounds like a TR being bulletproof within the first 5 pages. And then she missteps a bit logicially: "oh, and the only way to test that is to lynch Lucian, Lucian before Yurkin obv lolol," but the ends don't justify the means because the associative read is vapid to begin with, and it's working off the assumption one of us has to be scum. Very cart before the horse, and the path isn't town!logic imo. False. I look at accountability. That was a risky post for yurkin to make if you are town. But, if you are scum, due to your own ability to post and defend yourself under pressure (yurkin should know this, she's played with you before), her post is not as difficult to make as scum. She expressed suspicion, but did not vote - overall low accountability if you're scumbuddies. (Unless I missed that vote.)Similarly, in #225 wishy washy wording around Lanmisa. Notice the use of If, working off of more conditionals I see, and feels stanceless where there should be one, like, yes you read it neutral, but where are the thoughts other parts of their play? I'm not sure if you missed it, but I also explained that LanMisa was obvious town in another game that recently ended, but I missed this due to differing playstyles. They put an enormous amount of effort in that game. Having them hindered would likely damper that, and make them more difficult to read. As of this time, I'd probably lean them closer to town, but given that they have stronger tells, I'd rather rely on those.It's possible you missed my other commentary on LanMisa, so I'll wait for you to get back to me. Otherwise, this last part is cherry-picking. |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
Kit said: I thought your question was if it was within their wolf meta. To be more specific, they have called me out once for a somewhat aggressive stance on them, as a wolf. Though it was a quick back and forth, maybe 3 posts max, unlike here (I'd probably attribute this more to Marl.)RE said: none of this answered my question though... i didn't ask about yurkin pushing lan about being hindered, i asked about your thoughts on lan before the comment by yurkin was madeI think if LanMisa is town, that's something that we could figure out more easily if they weren't hindered. Putting out the possibility that they'd use being hindered as an excuse before it's actually happened may just lead to further emotional-based play; rarely a good thing and can happen regardless of alignment. So detrimental to town. I could also be assuming incorrectly what yurkin meant there, but it felt like implication that they'd be scum if they were to claim being hindered later on. So I'd just say, if they were to become hindered due to whatever toxicity may happen, it would be genuine, and I'd likely read them as no less than neutral for it. Where did you ask me for my thoughts on Lan prior? |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
RE said: ok, this (bolded) clarifies it. i had to read your post several times but i couldnt figure out how what you said about yurkin pushing lanmisa about being hindered had anything to do with lanmisa pushing marluxia about the wordingKit said: I thought your question was if it was within their wolf meta. To be more specific, they have called me out once for a somewhat aggressive stance on them, as a wolf. Though it was a quick back and forth, maybe 3 posts max, unlike here (I'd probably attribute this more to Marl.)none of this answered my question though... i didn't ask about yurkin pushing lan about being hindered, i asked about your thoughts on lan before the comment by yurkin was made Where did you ask me for my thoughts on Lan prior? is this within wolf meta = i asked your thoughts on lan prior to/regardless of yurkin's statement |
Kit said: Ah I see, I thought you meant asking about what I though of Lan in this game specifically.RE said: ok, this (bolded) clarifies it. i had to read your post several times but i couldnt figure out how what you said about yurkin pushing lanmisa about being hindered had anything to do with lanmisa pushing marluxia about the wordingI thought your question was if it was within their wolf meta. To be more specific, they have called me out once for a somewhat aggressive stance on them, as a wolf. Though it was a quick back and forth, maybe 3 posts max, unlike here (I'd probably attribute this more to Marl.) Where did you ask me for my thoughts on Lan prior? is this within wolf meta = i asked your thoughts on lan prior to/regardless of yurkin's statement DenjaX said: If you think you are miller, I believe the correct mechanical play is to full claim?I think I might be miller. Role is confusing. |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
| Top town is currently Kit. I may reread later to see if I can find anything else selling. |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
| good morning |
| Starpendle replaces Geyde, effective immediately. Do NOT discuss replacements. |
| Had I the heavens’ embroidered cloths, Enwrought with golden and silver light, The blue and the dim and the dark cloths Of night and light and the half light, I would spread the cloths under your feet: But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams. - WB Yeats |
| Sup getting dinner rn Anything to know? I'll skim through when I'm done. |
LanMisa said: blood of bahamut?Marluxion said: hard disagree on not using the correct terminology where it's applicable it's a game about manipulation gaslighting is manipulating someone into questioning what they believe there's not really a more apt terminology God, I did not remember you being this.... inflexible, to not use a different term, when I played with you in one of my earlier MU games. It should be obvious from context that I don't try to manipulate her mind in any kind of way but that I rather question this being a serious read and a serious vote on me. Also, to get a reaction out of her if she really meant it serious after all. If you really claim that me doubting her vote on me as serious is similar to... actual gaslighting, like it happens in toxic relationships a lot all over the world and that leads to REAL tragedies, then... this is going to be a rather unfun game for both of us. |
LanMisa said: oh there we goMarluxion said: Wait you've seen me play on MU? Who are you on MU out of curiosity? or just seen that i've played on the site in general? and yes my vote isn't rvs, LanMisa is mafia i was just making a point that you can't assume rvs has ended after only two votes Blood of Bahamut. If that wasn't the case I'd outright call you a Prada alt right here, right now. |
Dude_Mike said: 16pTo be honest I don't have a clue what roles are even possible in this hidden setup. or even how many mafia we are up agent is there is any 3p players in it. Plus new to all you as players. So reads are going to be interesting lol so like 12v4 if it's m vt |
| vv ftf v yurkin, re, Lan, Dude_Mike, Tainted n Phraze, Kiiruma, Wary_Wolf w DenjaX, Kit, Geydependle, LucianRoy, Karote ww marlux haven't posted kiana half of these might be real don't bother me vote:Marluxion |
| Train on Marl grew somewhat fast (4 votes, all serious it seems), there was skirmish between Marl and LanMisa over what has generally been agreed upon to be NAI, Denja is claiming miller (maybe). |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
| @LucianRoy Did you miss this post? |
...better to be hated for what you are than loved for something you are not. |
LucianRoy said: Dude's name literally has wolf in it. How is he not being run up? Good as reason as any at this point. I'd follow suit and vote for the guy, but that would go against my win condition. -_- Probably abstain at this point as more players during night cycle means more pie. Everyone wants more pie. |
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