BanG Dream! Ave Mujica Episode 12 Discussion

@Hormigo This looks like a typical melodramatic over the top female friendship in shoujo or all-female title. It's very melodramatic, but it's much less homoerotic than some Hibike where completely platonic pals compare their friendship to a boy and a girl's first date and so on.

I'm more interested in why they didn't make them half-sisters, for example. It would have been much simpler and more intuitive than what we got. Purely as a fanon, I can assume that their aunt and niece status was intentionally added to, on the one hand, get rid of accusations of yandere yuri bait, and on the other, make them not so close that people could continue shipping them. That's why they, at the moment, do not comment on this in any way so that they cannot be accused of moving in one direction or another. However, remembering how Revue Starlight and D4DJ handled ships, I think a lot will still depend on how their events will look in the game.

@RobertBobert After reviewing the "final" episode again and testing the fandom thermometer, I see (to my surprise) that it was not liked. What did you expect? "A suicide"? "A murder"? "That the boat Hatsune and Sakiko were on had sunk and they had drowned"?.... . In my opinion, what has been left over in this series is both dark drama and fanservice and what I have missed the most is more depth in the characters, so that we could understand them better. For better or worse, this is Bandori and there are certain red lines that could not be crossed. In the end, this chapter has followed all the canons in this type of series, "after the storm comes the calm", it is neither a happy nor a sad chapter, they have not fixed their problems, but they do not decide to stagnate in the past and move towards the future. Then another criticism has been: why hasn't Uika appeared? Well, as simple as that the only reason for Uika's existence was to give more depth to Hatsune's character, as well as pull that "rabbit out of the hat" that Hatsune was the daughter of Sakiko's grandfather and aunt, other than that she contributed nothing in regards to Ave Mujica, the Towaga family, Crychic and all their problems. It's a shame because I think this anime had much more potential, but as I said, an anime that has been a generator of memes and that the fandom almost cared more about the ships than the story itself, showed signs that people weren't "taking it seriously". Yesterday's chapter, dozens of Hatsune / Sakiko fanarts, if that's what they intended they have achieved it. That said, and not to sound too negative, it has been enjoyable so I give it a 6/10. Greetings

@Hormigo I don't quite understand why you are writing this to me. As far as I remember, I have never given the show any negative or positive ratings fo far. Or are you complaining that people cared more about over the top drama memes and incestuous shipping instead of actually caring about the show in general?

@RobertBobert sorry. The qualification is a personal thing. I mean the second . If of a story what worries To the people is whether his ship becomes a canon or not, or Hatsune memes in version "serial murderer "..." Houston we have a problem. "Walking the intention of the scriptwriters to try to get out of the canon of this type of series but in my opinion everything feels forced. More drama , More dark in a story does not imply that she is better or worse, it is as you expose it and how credible what makes it good or bad. Greetings

Ok, it seems that we've finally seen the girls resolving their problems:
- Sakiko put down her grief of losing her mother (as reflected by she leaving her favourite doll, which symbolised the love from her mother) and tried to be herself
- Hatsune faced her 'guilt',
- Nyamu was able to face Mutsumi and treat her as a companion...
everything is going on track.

And it appears that Sakiko first tried to regard Hastune as Hastune, but then gradually accepted that she was Uika, the girl who was in Ave Mujica. That is okay.

I also like when Tomori's songs did move people again...

But there is one point that is kind of iffy: Sakiko's proclamation to become the God. Her role (or symbolism) in her bands changed: from the CRYCHIC leader who formed a 'community of fate', to the AM manipulator who tried to grab everyone's fate in her hands, then now the God? The ascension from a human, to a demigod, to a deity is not that meaningful. I am not convinced that she is so omnipotent that she can manage everything well this time, despite all members' problems being, in a large part, solved.

Also, there are still some problems:
- How 'scary' is the Togawa family, as described by Sadaharu? (This may be probably answered by the downfall of Kiyotsugu, but this is not certain: his blunder of losing 16.8B yen might purely due to his grief of his late wife Mizhuho (ie Sakiko's mother))
- Where is Uika (as in the younger sister of Hatsune, if any)?
- How is Sadaharu going to deal with Sakiko's leaving and her staying with Hatsune?
- Does Hatsune have Munchausen syndrome, as suggested by the crew?

Anyway, I can't wait to see EP 13 :D

PS It is always a laughter to see Umiri acting in a funny way lol, she leaving a crying face to beg 'Uika' (Hatsune) and Sakiko for joining the rehearsal, and she being jealous of the 'Uika' befriending Taki by gifting her favourite drink! It is funny that 'Uika' gave the 'wrong' flavour of the drink: despite Taki loving chocolate flavour the most, Umiri always gave orange flavour (what Umiri liked the most) to Taki, and Taki gifted chocolate flavour drinks to Umiri in return.

@mc314159 I would venture to guess that in this case Sakiko is something of a self-insert for the author (screenwriter?) and the audience. Because she is literally like the local (apparently) female version of P-san. Just like Tomori was a self-insert POV for MyGO, as Ayano-san openly admitted that her experience was partially autobiographical. Otherwise, this is not a matter for a single conversation, but I would like to clarify that Sakiko directly acknowledged her as Hatsune, simply agreeing to accept her as "Uika" as a member of the group and childhood friend. This was not a denial of Hatsune's identity and experience per se, as that would actually be a very problematic message and would cement the identity theft of the original Uika. Especially compared to a character with a real split personality on the same show.

P.S. Also, for some reason no one has yet noticed that Umiri is acting like an unpaid secretary for her groupmates...

Literally feels like we skipped 2-3 episodes. And what about Hatsune's sister? That was all?

Anyway, one episode left but I can only feel disappointment about this series as a whole.

@Alex0714 Hatsune's 'sister'...

As the crew suggested, Uika had the Muchausen Syndrome, in which patients 'play the role of a sick patient to receive some form of psychological validation, such as attention, sympathy, or physical care'. It is possible that the 'sister of Hatsune', Uika, did not exist physically, but rather a persona made up by Hatsune.

I'm more inclined to this theory though. In EP 11, Uika and Hatsune had the same physical appearance and height, but they were sisters. From what Hatsune mentioned, Uika was the child of her step-father and her mother. Therefore, she must be at least around 9 months younger than Hatsune, unless somehow Uika and Hatsune were monozygotic twins (ie Hatsune's mother gave birth to Uika at the same time of Hatsune's birth), and Hatsune did not get to know the existence of Uika before she grew up to like 1-2 years old. If the sister hypothesis was correct, it would be virtually impossible for Sakiko to mix up the sisters...

Sigh... I hope the final EP could wrap up everything.

ngl the series is overall weaker than MyGo and it had a lot more time to build than MyGo did
the scale/potential of the script probably hurt them more in the long run

ill still give some props to Ave Mujica because the music is banger, and MyGo has one of THE WORST SONG IVE EVER LISTENED TO, EVER (Noroshi)


still kinda irks me Sakiko still calls her Uika, probably to make the re-debut smoother, but holyshit how can you still hide your half-sister lmao
specially since the real Uika is in Tokyo and since we know she's into the idol world, its not hard for her to stumble upon Sumimi or one of the other in-universe franchise bands

@RobertBobert fair enough. It appears that Sakiko simply regarded her aunt Hatsune as someone who had brought her happiness when they were childhood friends and a member of AM. Still, as mentioned herself, she wanted to cherish this small world where she could escape from the truth and just sleep in such a world.

And yes, Umiri is kind of like a shadow manager of AM lmao, it shows she really cares about AM (and is also a part of her actions to prove she longs for others in AM to believe in her).

Btw I don't quite get why Sakiko said she '[hated] this smell' of coffee? Did coffee bring her a certain trauma?

@mc314159 "i hate the smell of coffee" . it's a metaphor for life . the smell of coffee in the morning means that you have to wake up from that wonderful dream you had and get up even if you want to stay in bed longer in that pleasant and carefree state of drowsiness and return to harsh reality (going to work, going to school etc.) it is the stimulant to get through the day to day , that's how i understood that phrase. as far as the real uika is concerned, she was always a narrative resource to give substance to the Hatsune drama, but in itself the real uika "never existed" in mygo and ave mujica. "the real uika" that we know was always Hatsune. Sakiko accepted Hatsune as Hatsune even after she spoke of forgetting what happened on the ship, but in front of the other characters in the story she will always be Uika, because revealing the big secret to the general public could destroy her relationship with Sakiko, Ave Mujica, Sumimi. Not in vain is Hatsune the illegitimate daughter of a powerful family in a very conservative country like Japan, and to top it off "the aunt and the niece" are living in the same house, in a not entirely clear relationship, that would be a scandal. And that doesn't seem to bother Hatsune because when she calls her by the name Uika in front of the other members of Ave Mujica she smiles. It's a secret between the two of them. if they wanted to give more prominence to the real uika they should have taken her out before, but as someone said above in a comment, "it would have taken like three or four episodes to fit her in, and not waste time on unnecessary dramas, but unless they have another season planned to show her in the penultimate chapter or in the last chapter, it would not make sense because it would be very problematic to fit her in this story, without an arc dedicated to her. in the end they did not say that ayana is a fan of Yuri, because that is how I felt about this chapter, a romantic drama in the purest romeo and juliet style, but without scissors and without suicide at the end 😂😂😂. greetings

@mc314159 "i hate the smell of coffee" . it's a metaphor for life . the smell of coffee in the morning means that you have to wake up from that wonderful dream you had and get up even if you want to stay in bed longer in that pleasant and carefree state of drowsiness and return to harsh reality (going to work, going to school etc.) it is the stimulant to get through the day to day , that's how i understood that phrase. as far as the real uika is concerned, she was always a narrative resource to give substance to the Hatsune drama, but in itself the real uika "never existed" in mygo and ave mujica. "the real uika" that we know was always Hatsune. Sakiko accepted Hatsune as Hatsune even after she spoke of forgetting what happened on the ship, but in front of the other characters in the story she will always be Uika, because revealing the big secret to the general public could destroy her relationship with Sakiko, Ave Mujica, Sumimi. Not in vain is Hatsune the illegitimate daughter of a powerful family in a very conservative country like Japan, and to top it off "the aunt and the niece" are living in the same house, in a not entirely clear relationship, that would be a scandal. And that doesn't seem to bother Hatsune because when she calls her by the name Uika in front of the other members of Ave Mujica she smiles. It's a secret between the two of them. if they wanted to give more prominence to the real uika they should have taken her out before, but as someone said above in a comment, "it would have taken like three or four episodes to fit her in, and not waste time on unnecessary dramas, but unless they have another season planned to show her in the penultimate chapter or in the last chapter, it would not make sense because it would be very problematic to fit her in this story, without an arc dedicated to her. in the end they did not say that ayana is a fan of Yuri, because that is how I felt about this chapter, a romantic drama in the purest romeo and juliet style, but without scissors and without suicide at the end 😂😂😂. greetings

@Hormigo @mc314159 Even without knowing their biological connection, two girls living together would still be a good breeding ground for rumors. Especially for otaku and fans of showbiz scandals/speculation. For example, listen to any video segment on YouTube about how Sugita and Nakamura or Minase and Sumipe rented apartments together. 90% of the questions and discussions are either about intimate details of their lives, or jokes about shipping.

As for Romeo and Juliet, although there is definitely some Naoko Yamada-style homoerotic symbolism, I wouldn't call them Romeo and Juliet as a whole. Because they didn't want to live together in the first place, it was Sakiko's idea to neutralize her grandfather and her father. The whole conflict was that they were forbidden to communicate because Hatsune couldn't be brought into the family as an illegitimate child. The idea that relatives are not allowed to communicate because one illegitimate is "Romeo and Juliet" sounds too ambiguous (though I still assume that Ayano chose aunt and niece instead of half-sisters so that the incest idea wouldn't interfere with shipping so much). But yes, as I said above, Sakiko forced Hatsune to make some compromise by maintaining Uika's image as a fake public persona despite her acknowledging the original Hatsune.

@RobertBobert As I see it. Sakiko at no time forced Hatsune to keep Uika's name, simply if it was discovered that Hatsune had supplemented the identity of another person would destroy his image Publishes, Simply try to protect her . Regarding living together, the truth is that it was not necessary for Sakiko's objectives.But it is a fervent desire for Hatsune. Sakiko's Seiyuu already said it, speaking of the character, he likes his kindness and his Sense of responsibility, but that sense of responsibility, causes many problems. Everything we see in this chapter is Sakiko to take a determination and do everything possible to Protect the band, but from personal growth

@Hormigo "his" ? About who you're talking about? In this case, I think there were two main reasons. First, to protect Hatsune's reputation and personal life from all the problems that would come with revealing her story to strangers. Especially as a public figure and a musician. Second, she wants to emphasize how important the experience of friendship and communication with "Uika" was to her, also partially reducing Hatsune's feelings of guilt, because she believed that their entire childhood friendship was a deception on her part. But here it is important to emphasize that she accepts and values ​​the real Hatsune, otherwise it could falsely imply that she is only interested in her as a fake Uika and that because of this she simply wants to legitimize her fake identity. And plus, it kinda frees Bushi from indirectly spoilering the story after the show ends, lmao.

@RobertBobert I mean Nonon the Sakiko Seiyuu (sorry for my English) if that is what you mean. In the end both the director and the Seiyuu in his interviews give us more depth the characters than in the anime 😂😂😂😂. That is the failure that I see the anime the most, a lot

@Hormigo Did you mean that Sakiko represents the type of person who takes their responsibilities and intentions too seriously and because of this often goes too far/acts too harshly?

@RobertBobert These are the textual words of she the Seiyuu "Nontan :"Indeed, perhaps Sakiko's greatest weakness is that her excessive kindness leads her to take on too much. When she sees someone who needs support, she just can't abandon them. But it's precisely because of this nature that Ave Mujica was able to reunite ."Nontan: "She wants to be strong, yet she's more vulnerable than anyone, clumsy, unable to control not just those around her but even herself. So, even if she lacks the aptitude for it, I see her as a girl burdened with the fate of 'having no choice but to become the center.'By the way, Youchan said though Sakiko may not be suit for it (as per Nontan's words) but she can still become a wonderful leader. She loves her kindness and strong sense of responsibility 🥺.


This is part of Sakiko's vision for which they are directly involved in the anime but there are many more nuances. There are many more interviews that talk about other characters, and sincerely They help to better understand the characters, because in the story it is not deepened enough

@RobertBobert After all, many of the people who are seeing this anime will never reach the game and will keep what the anime should have been. After all, we are "judging" the anime of Ave Mujica.All are personal opinions Salu

@Hormigo Yes, but as I've learned from many manga and LNs, reading the original can completely change your understanding of the story as a whole. To the point where the anime will lose all value for you because of some twists or developments in the original source.

@RobertBobert TRUE . If there is a manga or a light novel I will follow it as I already do with other anime, but if it develops only in the game I am not very put in this type of games, I do not control the medium

Rewatched the episode during the weekend and noticed a few things that I didn’t quite catch during the initial viewing.

Episode 12 shows Sakiko seeks out Hatsune in person and has Hatsune confess the lies (then immediately apologize for lying), thus advancing the plot while avoiding the unsavory liar part with still half-an-episode to spare.

Episode 11 on the other hand, features a twenty minute monologue that did nothing to advance the plot other than providing an exposition, while simultaneously made a main character feel like a liar for her own good.

We can skip the entire “show, don’t tell” argument. What’s the point of having episode 11, if episode 12 is going to repeat and out do it?

They could hypothetically eliminate episode 11 entirely and the show still feels the same. With that episode gone they can focus more on Umiri and/or Nyamu, which had much less screen time than other main cast members in an ensemble show.

And the portrayal of Sakiko in the second half (and the series in general) is inconsistent at best, hypocritical at worst. Previously she was indetermined on almost every matter, but after reuniting with Hatsune she suddenly decides to leave Togawa family for good. She claimed she would not accept fate in the Ring café, then immediately went back to the same talent agency and started domineering because she is a Togawa.

Here’s the thing: Sakiko is not only a Togawa, but also THE Togawa, as Togawa family is a matriarchal family, and she is the true heiress. Her fate was sealed the moment she was born. Even if you write about a tragedy of a futile fight against fate, we can still sympathize with the character and be inspired by the fight itself. But in Sakiko’s fight against societal and familial circumstances, her poor decisions often reinforce the very things she claims to resist. (Sakiko has the biggest trump card Hatsune all this time yet somehow did not even threaten to use it.)

In the end I felt there’s a lot of wasted potential in this series.

Now I just hope when I wake up on Thursday morning, I will see a good live that contains no plot line, no twist and turns.

(There’s an odd blue LED wristband in a sea of red at the Ave Mujica concert in the teaser for the next episode. I wonder who came.)

So this episode starts with an ending and ends with an opening.

Romance and fighting for dreams happen.

I like how Sakiko decided to fight with her grandfather (main villain in Ave Mujica?) and for Uika Hatsune.
Sakiko no longer runs away and now goes to her goal herself.
Well they got rid of the grandfather quite easily. He could have easily sent Sakiko to another country by force. So maybe he is not a villain, just strict and stubborn.

But that romantic line with Uika...

Dont get me wrong, it was beautiful.
I like how Sakiko struggles to get to island, how they talk, scene on ship, how they sneak into house, argue with grandfather and then just play in garden, after just lie down together and go drink coffee. Its cute and romantic and yuri. Im satisfied.

But still there is a feeling of something left unsaid... Uika told Sakiko that she loves her, but Sakiko remained silent...
I know that Uika will be happy just to be with Sakiko, but still i was hoping for a happy yuri ending.
Well, there is season 2 annonced so there is chance.

The last episode left.
Damn, i will miss them silly girls, i really liked this anime.
But at least i still have MyGO to watch.

@x_scolopendra_x you should rewatch Ave Mujica after watching MyGO, It will be a total different experience.😃

@sharoro but doesnt it work the other way around?
I could get a different experience watching MyGO after Ave Mujica, right?

@x_scolopendra_x I will say it doesn't work well since the timeline is reversed...
Hope you can have a fun experience.