The Implications of a "Magic Nullifying Crystal"

deg said:
maybe they are so rare and that frieren only discovers one after they defeated the demon king

but current manga arc

ktg said:
Because you can't really use it as a weapon. If you simply make a barrier of physical substance - e.g. earth wall - it won't cancel anything and you would be able to block the attack.
Also if it's really rare, then shooting it isn't worth it because you could lose it.
And lastly based on what Frieren said usually it's pretty small and it has a small range. Like it doesn't matter if you throw at them when it cannot cover the mage's whole body. Like yes, you cancel the magic of his left hand while he keeps attacking with his right one.

So based on what we know and how magic works, it's not that useful.

V1P3R0P said:
1. Finding 1 is very rare. Even if you find it, extractimg is near to impossible
2. even if they had found 1 in any store, buying it would need them a fortune, due to its rarity. They are already broke, they wouldnt want to go any down from there
3. Carrying the crystal makes the mages completely defenseless. They can't use their mana detection as well, making it a bad idea for a mage to carry it, reagardless of. how much of a fortune it is. Money isnt bigger than their life.
4. I dont think Frieren is entirely affected by the Mana nullification crystal. Her powers may become momentarily weak, but she could still be the baddie in the room if needed. This episode just made her look vulnerable to provide much needed for Stark as a character.

Sigmar-Unberogen said:
Sigh... Did you miss the part where Frieren says those stones are super rare? Not to mention you have to be extra lucky to find a conveniently small one since AS ALSO MENTIONED stones are impossible to process with tools and magic.

ktg said:
@Suprgamr123 Don't make me repeat myself again. Learn to read.

Aura would have created an earth wall and that would have blocked the crytal, so you are wrong.
Mages usually constantly using some magic, especially in danger, for example mana detection. So they could have immediately felt that they lost their ability to use magic when Graf became too close. Therefore Graf wouldn't have been able to surround them.

As the weapon part, firstly, my point wasn't being a weapon, but being a one time usable weapon. If you lose the crytal, your weapon won't work.
Secondly, they make weapons from expensive stuff, when they can mass produce it, so even if they use it, they could create a new one. That's not the case here, because you could easily run out of ammo.

Sigmar-Unberogen said:
@Suprgamr123 So you're stubbornly refusing to accept the fact it's a super rare stone. That's a YOU problem.

Frieren just happened to find the stone, it's that simple. She most likely felt that something was nullifying her magic (unlike Fern) and that's why she started looking into the bush to begin with. Heck, they even mentioned how Frieren woke up earlier than usual! Her senses are on a different level.

Suprgamr123 said:
given that so much is already known about them

Suprgamr123 said:
I'd learn basic logic before telling people to read.

ktg said:
@Suprgamr123 "First of all", we do pretty clearly know that there are basic spells that are commonly used among mages, like flying, so pretty basic elemental manipulation is obviously known to Aura as being a 500 years old, high level demon. And no, it doesn't matter which element she uses, she could have blown away with a wind spell as well.
Secondly, they can attack Graf with - again - elemental spells or physics-related tricks. E.g. I fly a rock over your head and drop. The rock won't disappear because that was not created with magic, anything similar, water, lightning or even blood which was Lugner technique is useful against this crystal.

But those shots are not guaranteed hits, that's the point. If you could guarantee that you hit the demon king, then yes, sure, but you cannot. And if you need to get close to him to ensure the hit, you would be dead.


So, when will you learn basic logic, because everything that I said comes from basic logic?

Sigmar-Unberogen said:
Knowledge exists for sure but is it common knowledge? I would assume it's not. Frieren who's been alive for 1000 years, would know this for sure. Do you think others know too, or care too much about it? I mean we have humans who never learn and think demons can be reasoned with. My point is, it should be common knowledge that demons are irredeemable but apparently it isn't common knowledge. Why would people care or know more about rare magic-nullifying stones?
Considering how rare the stone is and how limited its uses are, I don't think many care about it or build strategies around the stone. I mean, having a magical shield over the city (Aura tried to take for instance) is way more convenient than let's say a huge nullifying stone with similarly big area of effect. It is simply just too inconvenient.

What we know about the thing is that it's the most durable stone in existence, it nullifies magic, is very hard to find, and even if found it's not possible to extract with tools and magic, unless the size is small. So basically you can't make ornaments, armor or weapons out of it, you just have to constantly carry it around in its natural shape, have no mages in party and HOPE once you come across a demon or an enemy mage they won't just run 4meters (using the stone we saw as example) away from you and blast you away with various ranged spells. I mean, if a mage tosses a boulder at you, your magic-nullifying stone won't do shit - because, basic physics. Stone is pretty much good only in ambush scenarios or in a safehouse. It's not good in offense scenarios and has limited uses.

Suprgamr123 said:
. Even if only ONE person knew about it, that person would still be able to use it as a weapon.

Suprgamr123 said:
2. It's not about permanently paralysing them,

Suprgamr123 said:
1. They clearly didn't use it for defence either

Suprgamr123 said:
2. Of course you're dead if you miss, that's the case with any attack.

Suprgamr123 said:
Richter's boulder WAS countered by Kanne's water. But that doesn't make Richter's magic entirely useless and invaluable in combat does it?

Sigmar-Unberogen said:
Now you're starting to make no sense. We haven't yet seen if humans use such stones for defense. I just said it makes the most sense. As for the Graf (I assume you're talking about Granat), he was naive enough to believe demons wanted peace and let them in. There was no need for a magic-nullifying stone in the city since the barrier was doing a perfect job already. If he had such stone, he would likely bring it with him the first time he had a convo with 3 demons in the room of his dead son. Graf was intending to kill them but was manipulated. Basically, the stone would be useful in such scenario, but Graf apparently didn't have it because it's rare, or he never bought one since the barrier was doing a good job already. You can invent a scenario where a special task force goes out to kill Aura while carrying stones, but you'd honestly be making it sound too easy.

FFS... Yes, you can miss any attack, so why bother paying million dollars if it has limited uses and can still miss just as easily??? It doesn't make sense to carry super rare and expensive item with very limited range and use, when you can prioritize something that is more PRACTICAL and can kill just as easily.

Sigh... The point of my argument was that even if Richter carried a stone, he would've been demolished by Kanne if Kanne attacked him from 4 meters above Richter. Using stone in attacks heavily relies on catching the opponent off guard. A competent mage would avoid melee combat with a warrior to begin with and keep distance, and that's why I used assassin as an example as they rely on stealth and surprise attacks. I'm not denying ENTIRELY that the stone can be used during attacks, but when you consider it's rare and expensive, we can deduct that only a handful of people can pull that off. It's not practical!

Your whole argument is that the stone is OP and can be used to defeat the demon king or "at least" Aura. But it's not that simple. Just as a reminder, the stone Frieren found was pretty big yet it could nullify magic in a 3 meter radius ONLY. Smaller stones likely have even smaller radius. Considering how this one stone can buy you a mansion, it's logical to assume even larger stones (that can be carried in combat) are INCREDIBLY rare.

Suprgamr123 said:
but none have used it

Suprgamr123 said:
I'm sure the Graf or Lord Orden would've easily paid millions just to give their respective sons even that little bit more protection.

Suprgamr123 said:
3. The whole point is that you DON'T let them get far from you.

Suprgamr123 said:
4. Like I said previously, disarming a mage, even for a millisecond, is invaluable in a fight.

Sigmar-Unberogen said:
In combat YES! In defense, you CAN'T know! Show not showing those other kings/lords owning stones doesn't mean they don't own them. It's not like we saw them getting attacked by demons in the castle/towns. Though yes, neither can I prove that they do keep stones for defense. We just haven't seen an example of either. They may be using them for specific small rooms, who knows?

Even if they end up getting killed by a magic user anyways? Sure, if you have plenty of money to throw around, why not? But then for the 1000s time, you need to remember that you can't change shape of stones with tools and magic. You have to get ones that are small enough to carry.

Good luck with that against the likes of Aura who's surrounded by 1000s of soldiers. I understand your point, but as I've said many times, it's simply not practical to use stones in combat, especially against tough opponents who CAN run away. Considering they're rare and expensive, it's just something only a few people would use. I believe people would simply invest money in something else.

Yes, but you can do that without paying millions of dollars for a 1-3 meter radius nullification stone. It can still work, sure, but I don't see how it's worth it. I mean, if we were to make simulation fights of let's say Eisen (with a 3meter radius stone) vs Aura (without scales). How many battles out of 100 do you think Eisen would win? I'd say like 1 out of 100. It just wouldn't make a significant difference unless you vastly underestimate Aura just because Frieren easily killed her due to trickery with mana.

wherrry said:
It’s anime not real life

Otosan_Pops said:
This is why you have diverse parties. If your magic user is incapacitated, you have others in your party who can continue combat. In the cave, it was just Stark and "two ordinary girls" against a poison beast. Frieren was able to sleep peacefully despite being powerless because she trusted in her party compositions abilities.

Toasty-senpai said:
bro is really refusing every explaination lmao

just drop the show if you're that pressed over the first episode

Suprgamr123 said:

refuting an argument is different than rejecting it.

just uninstall MAL if you're so pressed over your opinions being challenged.

Toasty-senpai said:

Nah bro, I can tell every reply spikes your blood pressure. Don't get so pressed over this lol

SuperAdventure said:
It was a contrivance to remove Fern & Frieden's powers so the episode could focus on Stark.
With them both being master mages he's basically worthless so author quickly threw in this concept which will never be used again. Just like the magic-photography last season.

Of course it can be used in combat. But it's just a gimmick for this one episode or whichever manga chapter originally

Suprgamr123 said:
magic itself is nulled, not just spells. We know this because fire must also be elemental magic and the fire spell from Fern didn't work

Suprgamr123 said:
Don't try to argue that lighting a fire is creating something new as opposed to the rocks that already exist because fire is not an object in the same way, but the by product of combustion so you're only really adding energy to the oxygen that already exists.

Suprgamr123 said:
So, if you can't do that with the fire spell, then you can't do any other elemental spells either. And therefore, despite the rocks existence, you couldn't fly it over the man's head.

Suprgamr123 said:
Use the logic you claim to have here, if elemental magic was possible, why wouldn't Frieren or Fern have just used it to kill the monster?

ktg said:

Re-watch the scene, because that's not what happened.
1. Frieren finds the crytal, Fern can't use magic.
2. Frieren gives it to Stark who walks away, Fern CAN use magic AND ignites the firewood.
3. Stark walks back and gives Frieren the crytal - so at this point by your logic elemental based changes should be nullified -, the fire keeps burning, so it wasn't cancel by the magic.

The elements are not created by magic, so a crytal won't be able to "delete" them. This scene proves this.


That's partially what's going on and it was explained by Richter and Edel in S1. Richter talked about it against Lawine and Kanna, while Edel talked about it while they were fighting Sense's clone.


You could. You wouldn't able to do it if you would be in range. But the point is that you can be outside of that crystal range and launch attack from there. Because the launch - the magic power - was given to the object outside of the range, it can't nullify the magic inside of the range, because at that point it does not have any magic in it.


See, this is why I said you can't speak English. My point was to use magic outside of the range of the crystal. That's why they couldn't use in it the cave.
But in a real battle they start from outside of the crytal's range. The point was that if you attack someone with a magic spell who has this crytal, that person would be safe if your attack is magic based, because the magic is nullified, but if you attack is existing elemental based, then the elements would still hit them, because the momentum was given to them before they entered the crystal's range.
Therefore the crystal against mages useless in a fight, because they could easily avoid it - block it - when you try to throw or go close to them and it wouldn't even protect you, because they could attack from outside of that range.

It's not a hard concept to understand...

-DxP- said:


I thought that was explained quite well in the episode. It is almost impossible for humans to mine the crystals, and they are also extremely rare. Just because they are rare does not mean that there is no knowledge about them. Frieren is over a thousand of years old don't forget that, It doesn't surprise me that she knows something about it. Besides, we don't know for sure that no one uses such crystals in battle, you're jumping to conclusions.

The only thing that surprised me a little was that Frieren was able to charge the crystal with magic, even though the crystal was supposed to neutralize it.

Suprgamr123 said:
1. if you had the ability to read, you'd be able to tell that that correlates perfectly with what I said. It's the ignition of the fire or the movement of the rock that is magic reliant, and therefore impossible, not their sustained existence afterwards.

2. The rock exists, but you can't move it without magic, which, again, is nulle

Suprgamr123 said:
4. This is obviously only for warriors, and, like I said in the previous point, a warrior would still need to close the distance without the crystal, the crystal itself just gives them a big advantage when they are able to do so.

Suprgamr123 said:
also, if you mean to say that a mage inside the radius of a crystal can cast a spell in the region outside it, that cannot be the case as a mages mana seems to be contained within their person, so the mana would have to come from them themselves, which would likely be nullified.