[spoilers]What is so deep about Texhnolyze?

Antilope said:

[spoiler]As for how to interpret the anime as a whole, it's difficult and while I was reading up on various interpretations I came across tons of different ways to interpret it, some of them were similar to my own thoughts, others were completely different. I'd definitely say that the final scene of Ichise peacefully accepting his death was about self-acceptance and being able to find meaning in your actions even when basically everything he tried to do failed (everyone he tried so save died). Just the fact that he had changed to somebody who cared and acted out of more than pure, limited survival instinct like in the beginning of the show made him able to embrace his death with a smile on his face.

Ran's role is even more vague in my opinion, but I think one thing is for sure and that's that she saw all this coming from the very beginning. That's why she was so depressed throughout the series and refused to talk about her premonitions right until the very end. She wanted to be the only one to have to suffer from that knowledge and not burden for example Ichise by telling him that he'll basically be the last one to go.

One way to interpret the bigger picture is certainly that the show is about the extinction of the human race with the faint possibility of evolution through the Shapes taking root in the earth like that. The duality of the conflict-less but apathetic surface world and the chaotic world of Lux that devoured itself with all the lingering ambitions shows the two sides of humanity brought to their extreme and both eventually failing since by separation the balance was lost. Or in other words they symbolize two different ways of facing (or bringing forth) the extinction of the race. Apathetically, just waiting to die with peaceful memories of the past, or by living and fighting to your last breath so you die at least as a result of your own actions and not just wait for your eventual doom to kick in.

The other one is to interpret it more symbolically as an analogy for the inner struggle of someone who lies in a coma with the various characters symbolizing conflicting ideals/wills inside of his mind. One of the main reasons people like it is that the blurred/incomprehensible writings hint at it being a dream since you can't read text in dreams. It also somehow makes sense of those weird radio noises and if you go further you can interpret the whole surface world as lingering memories of the real world of which the coma patient is no longer a part of, which is why everything seems literally so ghostly.
Being kept alive by artificial means also ties into the theme with artificial limbs supporting Ichise and some of the other characters, and a lot of the inhabitants of Lux in general. You could even go as far as to say the people are declining parts of the brain that are being kept alive by the machinery that in the dreamworld is symbolized by texhnolyzation. The whole show could depict the conflict about how the mind should deal with the comatose, isolated state it finds itself in. There's the religious angle, the angle of reason/order and the anarchic one, symbolized by the three organizations in Lukuss. There is also the idea of evolving in a way that accepts that decline and that artificial help, which is what the doc is trying to do (also gives additional meaning to her name). Kano is the other character who goes down that road but in a much more extreme manner, almost fully substituting the physicality by texhnolyzation which lead sot the eventual decline into insanity for Lukuss/the mind of the patient while Ichise is on the surface world observing those fading 'memory ghosts' and coming to terms with his father that way. But in the end Ichise, the representation of the will or core humanity if you want to call it that rejects the path of insanity or of battling that insanity by endlessly waiting in the form of those rooted Shapes until something might come out of it and stops struggling, accepting death with a smile on his face.
I don't think this theory can explain every little detail of the show, but it's definitely an interesting and mostly coherent way to look at things. The fact that Ichise is the first and last person we see in the anime could also support the theory that the world we see is born and dies with him.

At the end of the day I remembered why I loved this show on my first watch through rewatching it. It's not because any particular interpretation utterly captivates me, but because the atmospheric and mysterious narrative appealed to me on a level that didn't even require full, intellectual understanding. It conveys an atmosphere, a feeling, an intuition that just resonated with me and the fact that you can interpret it in so many ways (I found a lot of interpretations that differed from the two I discussed, but those two were closest to my own, vague impressions that I had trouble putting into words) is a nice bonus and can support the theory that it wasn't intended in one specific way. It's thought-provoking both while you watch it and after you complete it, and according to an interview with the creators that's what they were going for. Or at least they're happy if that's the result of watching this show.

Let me quote Yasuyuki Ueda on the question what he wanted to say with the show:



The central theme of the show is suffering loss but remaining a will to live which is valid in both the apocalyptic and the internal interpretation.

Abe: When creating characters, what I tried to be careful about, or what I wanted to appreciate, was that those characters were living human beings. I said just a moment ago that there was not much room for symbolic decorative elements in terms of designing, and that’s the same thing. There are comics out there, for instance, in which you see lots of bloodshed. In that sense, there are stories that are far bloodier that this one, I think. But, in those stories, the bloodshed itself has become nothing but symbolic. There’s no pain, for instance. Characters are mortally wounded but still can go on fighting like hell. In the Shonen Jump-type of world, for instance, that kind of unreality is accepted as completely normal. [Ueda laughs] Something that makes you go, “That’s impossible!” I didn’t want that. In our story, if the main character’s arm is severed, for instance, I wanted the real pain to be conveyed to the viewers. I wanted to design characters that could make it possible.

Ueda: Maybe I was too particular about that as well. Retrospectively, I feel that I was too hung up on that point for the first half of the story. But I wanted it to be taken very seriously, that the characters were having their arms and legs severed. For the sake of story-telling, it might have been better to push it forward in a quicker tempo, with “I’ve got my limbs cut off, but I’m OK! I’ll go on!” kind of attitude, but I couldn’t compromise on that point. In the story as a whole, the texhnolyzed limbs are not a mere substitute for lost limbs. The texhnolyzed limbs take a role, as if they are sort of partners to their respective owners – they have a very important meaning. I wanted to express the pain of loss, and the things that happen after natural limbs are lost. So the first half of the story is very dark and dragging [ABe agrees], but once people watch the story to the end, maybe they’ll think, “Oh, so this is what the creators wanted to do, and that’s why they were so persistent in the first half.” I have a feeling that they will understand.

Antilope said:
I'm sure Zerg could go into more detail and especially shine some light on the references the show uses since he's a huge fan of Tex, but the TL;DR is that it can be interpreted for hours in various different ways, ranging from totally nihilistic to hopefully optimistic interpretations, and most of them make sense in some way. It's a beautifully created riddle that can't necessarily be solved but can inspire a lot of thought both via it's writing, narrative and visuals. Certainly not for everyone though.

AttackOnTetris said:

Basically, because the show says nothing, you can turn it into whatever you want.

AttackOnTetris said:
Basically, because the show says nothing, you can turn it into whatever you want.

Antilope said:
Not really. If a show says nothing you can't turn it into anything, since there's nothing to begin with. It's rather the opposite, because there's so much going on but only a part of it being on the surface you can interpret it depending on your individual mindstate and viewing experience and don't get a specific message shoved down your throat by the creator. That's the beauty of it.

TheRefractingOne said:
But the show does employ the regular usage of symbolism, at least alluding to having deeper messages (whether or not they exist is a separate topic). Texhnolyze is not just some straightforward mobster war anime with a kill 'em all ending.

Also +1 to Antilope's post.

Somewhat on topic, symbolism, motifs, and imagery are just mechanisms. I've seen a general perception that cramming a bunch of these mechanisms into an anime makes it "deep", which is silly. It's all about how they are used.

There are quite a few animes which have an actual plot and non-hidden ideas that stimulate thought. Because of this notion that "omg symbolism, 2deep4u", a lot of people don't like to talk about a good plot that brings up interesting ideas, because they'd rather be decoding symbols. That kind of frustrates me.

Now I like some symbolism a lot, as long as it actually accomplishes something.

Feaor said:
Its laughably disingenuous to try and claim that Tex has no meaning when the interview above with the character designer and director directly contradicts that. There is almost certainly intent behind everything in the show, that's why its so deliberate, Chiaki Konaka is just not one to spell everything out for the viewer heavy handedly.

AttackOnTetris said:
Explaining things does not equate to "heavy-handedness". It doesn't matter how smart your ideas are: if nobody can understand them, the presentation failed.

Feaor said:
I'm pretty sure people understand it because otherwise it wouldn't have such a cult following, same goes for Lain. I don't see what's wrong with people interpreting the show differently, there is definitely authorial intent underlying it but that doesn't mean that there is only one way to look at things.

Feaor said:
I'm pretty sure people understand it because otherwise it wouldn't have such a cult following, same goes for Lain. I don't see what's wrong with people interpreting the show differently, there is definitely authorial intent underlying it but that doesn't mean that there is only one way to look at things.

AttackOnTetris said:
Lastly, there isn't even "definitely" authorial intent. I can make my own devoid-of-meaning Jackson Pollack-esque "paintings" and talk about the deep meaning behind it while playing the audience for fools as they gobble it up.

I wanted to express the pain of loss, and the things that happen after natural limbs are lost. So the first half of the story is very dark and dragging [ABe agrees], but once people watch the story to the end, maybe they’ll think, “Oh, so this is what the creators wanted to do, and that’s why they were so persistent in the first half.” I have a feeling that they will understand.

OkayCaim said:
It's all subjective. (Am I doing the meme right? AM I DOING IT RIGHT?)

AttackOnTetris said:

"It's all underneath the surface" just comes off as a poor excuse for "I badly want my interpretation of nothing acknowledged as something".

You can read your own meaning into any part of any show that has a void of meaning.

It's just that so little actually happens in the middle part of Texhnolyze apart from a bunch of hardass gangsters destroying each other, that I think people start to become desperate to read something into it.

Maybe it's all subjective, but when something drags on for 22 episodes, I prefer it to at least have a solid backbone to provide context to all the subtleties.

The ending was interesting in its presentation, but still most of my questions surrounding it were "what happened?" rather than "this is an interesting concept".

TheRefractingOne said:
Precisely. If AOT wishes to contend that Texhnolyze is not clear enough in it's intents as far as thematic presentation goes, fair enough, that could lead to an interesting discussion in which I concede I probably wouldn't be able to reasonably defend my stance at the moment.

But there is definite intent underlying the series, people didn't just randomly choose a title and attempt to ascribe value to it whilst the series itself had no intention of receiving such a reaction.

If the vision of the world that has gone into the film turns out to be one that other people recognize as a part of themselves that up till now has never been given expression, what better motivation could there be for one's work.

Feaor said:
Did you even read the interview snippet? Literally from the interview:



I don't think its possible to make it anymore clear that they had a clear idea in mind and set of themes and ideas they wanted to discuss at least at some level.

AttackOnTetris said:
Just because they say it's so doesn't mean they aren't playing the viewer for a fool.

Feaor said:
I'm fucking done, this is the stupidest thing I've read in ages.

AttackOnTetris said:
Just because they say it's so doesn't mean they aren't playing the viewer for a fool.

AttackOnTetris said:

Explaining things does not equate to "heavy-handedness". It doesn't matter how smart your ideas are: if nobody can understand them, the presentation failed.

Godhood said:
whats the point in showing human evolution if everyone dies in the end?

Feaor said:
I'm fucking done, this is the stupidest thing I've read in ages.

Gholy said:
Do you really think that Tex was made just to trick people into thinking it's "deep"?

Antilope said:

Again, you missed the point. It's not at all about interpretations being 'acknowledged' by anyone, it's the process that's actually enjoyable. You seem to have a much more author-based approach to fiction than me who's more reader/viewer-based which also shows when you talk about symbolism only being about how they are used/intended while I particularly dislike it when the author uses symbolism to promote ONE specific meaning by it. Those cases usually end up being obnoxious to me and I value symbolism more when it doesn't have a clear meaning that the author obviously intended, but because of the multi-layered nature of motifs and such that responds to the approach/mindset of the viewer.

That's just the 'I can't enjoy it despite others managing to do so so I'll interpret it as being void of meaning and everyone else just being pretentious' way of saying what I was saying above. You call it reading your own meaning into the void, I call it being open to interpretation enough to mirror the mind of the viewer instead of simply being used to carry a intended message from the author. That's what stories (good stories) are all about for me.
But if your above interpretation is what works best for you to digest the show, that's fair enough, but it's just condescending to imply your 'void' interpretation is correct and all the other, more fruitful interpretations are just making stuff up. In my view they all just mirror the various expectations and thoughts of whoever watched the show.

These lines are good examples. Most people who enjoy Texhnolyze never felt like it was dragging at all, in fact I personally think there is a lot going on even in the episodes that people usually complain about having nothing happening. If you aren't interested in paying attention to detail and stuff then of course you will perceive a lot less happening, but that's more a matter of your approach than a fault of the show.
One of the guys I simulwatched it with didn't even realize the whole setting was underground for the first 10 episodes even though it becomes abundantly clear in episode 2 if you pay some attention. Unsurprisingly he didn't end up the kind of viewer that enjoyed Texhnolyze much, which is okay, but again more an issue of individual approach/expectations than being a flaw of the show.

Well, naturally the 'What happened' question has to come first, that's what leads to the interesting interpretations and theorizing about the concept. You either like watching stuff like that, or you don't, I guess. If you want to jump straight to the interesting concept, there are enough shows that are conceptualized from the start and don't veil themselves in layers of symbolism and visual storytelling, but to me that's a different kind of enjoyment.


e: I kidna shifted the debate to a more meta level with that post but since I think that's where most of the misunderstandings/disagreements about Tex can be solved I hope that's fine. I generally see a lot of debates coming down to author-centric vs viewer-centric mindsets so I think it's an interesting topic to discuss and Tex gives us the perfect context for that.

AttackOnTetris said:

I think you're not applying enough cynicism to the psychology behind the cult followers. Just look at how many people think they "get it", and how many different interpretations there are.

gedata said:

Must've missed the memo when being "open to interpretation" became equitable to pretension.

Godhood said:
whats the point in showing human evolution if everyone dies in the end?

TonyTheme said:
Compare the evolution through texhnolyzation (the reach for perfection) brought on by Kanno and the world above.

Godhood said:
whats the point in showing human evolution if everyone dies in the end?

Tylaen said:


No. The fact that you need confirmation means you're not worthy of this meme.

Go to the shameful corner!

Godhood said:
whats the point in showing human evolution if everyone dies in the end?

Zergneedsfood said:
This is the big problem with people who watch Texhnolyze. The first is that they can't see beyond the gangs with swords, which hardly makes up a significant portion of screen time to begin with. A significant portion is spent on other things. Entire episodes are devoted to the process of Texhnolyzation, the structure of Lux, Ichise getting fucked, the upper world, Kano, etc. Trying to focus on the gang violence is, to me, an indicator that you really didn't understand much else, because the gang violence was really a major front for a lot of other things that happened. At its very core Texhnolyze is really only about one person.

(...) Texhnolyze is much too coherent to be misconstrued as some sort of flailing philosophical experiment. To suggest otherwise would be to blatantly disregard what actually happens in the show.

The second problem is that people have this sort of unrealistic expectation of Texhnolyze being "deep" and "philosophical." Texhnolyze is complex and has an incredible story and set of points that it touches upon, but whenever people hear the word "deep," I feel like people just turn on this mentality in their brain that scrutinizes every minor detail as a means of discrediting why something is "deep."

Zergneedsfood said:

The second problem is that people have this sort of unrealistic expectation of Texhnolyze being "deep" and "philosophical." Texhnolyze is complex and has an incredible story and set of points that it touches upon, but whenever people hear the word "deep," I feel like people just turn on this mentality in their brain that scrutinizes every minor detail as a means of discrediting why something is "deep."

Godhood said:
yeah but evolution is progress and death is the end thats contradictive

Zergneedsfood said:
What concepts are you talking about? Actual concepts like Texhnolyzation, sunlight and power in Lux, the state of the Theonormals, the socio-political structure of the city?

Or are you talking about the show's cyberpunk themes, such as the man vs machine, losing our humanity, overreliance on technology, what does it mean to be human....all of which are explored in depth through Ichise, Onishi, and Shinji.

Are you talking about its commentary on the human condition? How the show views struggling to survive as a much more preferable option to just dwindling away and dying having done nothing?

What concepts are you talking about and to what degree are they insufficient

Zergneedsfood said:
A big part of Ichise's story is becoming more human, not through the technology that he receives against his will, through the interactions he has with actual people. Doc was one of the more interesting relationships as it was kind of a fucked up mother/son relationship, but I think that moment just captures the way in which Ichise was able to overcome the constraints of his robot limbs because of his bonds with other people.

AttackOnTetris said:

Would you mind just picking one and explaining how you felt Texhnolyze provided a new dimension that really struck you with its originality?

My answer would basically be something along the lines of "some of them were described well enough for background, but none of them were taken anywhere interesting". You obviously love the show so I'd be interested how a devout fan/rewatcher finds brilliance in these concepts. And by focusing on a single one that you find particularly deep meaning in, I can try to understand where you're coming from, or just in the end agree to disagree.

Godhood said:

now i am confused, cupc and zergneedsfood said it doex explore themes

Chrisereum said:

Yes there are themes that are explored.My point is those themes are presented in such a way,that you can interpret it in your own way and might possibly be not wrong about it. I was talking more about the presentation of the themes that may( or according to few ) or may not be explored.One thing is for sure though,this one has pretty high re watch value.You tend to understand somethings which you won't on the first try(happened with me because I am a pleb..:P)

Godhood said:

Could you please give an example of one concept that Texhnolyze portrayed in depth because I noticed nothing.

I feel like all Texhnolyze did was manipulating it's viewers emotions through the ending, kinda like Shigatsu or Clannad.

cupc said:


Zerg mentioned multiple concepts in his post, re-read the post if you want examples.

Godhood said:

You seem like the most open minded and friendliest poster in this thread so would you mind giving me an example of an explored theme and how it is explored? I'm not the most smart person so maybe it's my fault for not getting more out of this anime but maybe you can help me see it.