Knights of Sidonia
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Jan 16, 2016 3:24 PM
#1
| I finished reading the manga's 78 ending chapter yesterday... And oh boy how trolled I feel. I marathoned the shit out of both anime seasons after getting into it (first couple of episodes I found a bit weird, getting used to the CGI 3D and sometimes stuttery framerate)... Why, why did Polygon Pictures teased me so much with Izana x Nagate? I mean, they did remove some scenes (like the hot bath scene which was in the summary movie instead though) and merged others, but they went as far as fetching some scenes from way later in the manga into season 2 and even added extra details (like Hiyama san kicking Nagate's ass out of the dorm, or when Nagate bumps his head into Izana's ass when they climb the stairs back to their home (when Izana was in that white revealing dress her "grandma" wanted her to wear)). The relationship felt so forced down our throats (not that I disliked it, on the contrary), only to end up being shattered by a troll ending. I don't even get how the hell Nagate was so attracted to a giant penis tentacle anyway, I mean sure, that was a nice comic relief and Tsumugi was nice and friendly, reminding us about Hoshijiro, but a love interest? o_O For the record all Hoshijiro did before dieing was helping him get out of the infirmary and then eat some noodles at the millenium fire festival. And later hold hands together in the submarine tour. That's it. It would have made more sense if Nagate directed his mind towards shaming Kunato for his under the belt move (which ultimately brought Hoshijiro's death) instead of being obsessed by Placenta (ena) Hoshijiro and later on Tsumugi. Meanwhile, you have Izana who's there the whole time, holding the torch, being cockheld all the time by Yuhata (oh the irony), she even saved his life and he didn't thank her >_> The last part of development we had was that "yes of course I do care about you" from our dimwit MC after being asked. That was really infuriating me when I discovered in the manga that this scene in fact happened way later than in the anime chronology, and how there was absolutely zero further progress after that (but tentacle girl got her free day of vacations on the beach and a kiss, though o_O) In the end, we got Placenta Hoshijiro 2.0 (the second one that was locked in Toha Heavy Industries ) implemented with tentacle girl's memories okay... Who's still a placenta (ena). How the hell did they procreate to make a child anyway??! Shouldn't it have resulted into a Chimera? o_0 I guess it was Nagate & captain Kobayashi's child in fact, since he apparently banged her for all night (if not all three days) at one point (another wtf plot development and jerk move by him/Nihei to shit on Izana fans I guess). [EDIT: added new theory about Nadoka's background at the bottom] And Yuhata being the one to turn male for Izana... Huh? I'm not sure how I can describe my wtf feelings about this "idea". We had what, 2 pictures / dialogues to hint / forebode at this? huh? And it wasn't really suggested Izana was agreeing on it either... That's not how you close an unrequited love ffs. I wouldn't have minded this ending THAT much if there were WAY less Izana & Nagate moments I guess. It just leaves a really awful sour taste in my mouth. Overall, that ending was so rushed and coming outside of left field, I'm not even sure what the hell happened in Nihei's mind. Either some really bad plot execution / story telling / pacing (probably), some editor deadlines/pressuring (weird since Volume 15 has a result has chapters 71-78 for a total of 8 chapters and 262 pages compared to the average 5 chapters and about 180 pages o_O It would have made more sense to make a couple more chapters and properly build Izana x Yuhata maybe? Explain wtf was that giant cheese containing the Kabi blades doing there in the middle of nowhere? Who were the Gauna and what was their point? Why did the immortal commitee refused to fight head on and had to be killed by Ochiai's clone? too many unanswered questions. I know I now am not eager for a third season (or a manga spinoff/sequel since it was hinted at in the end) considering he ruined the relationship big time. Unless by some miracle Polygon Pictures (after all the extra hinting & building up (which was one of the things I liked in season 2 the most)) manages to produce an anime original ending... which would be possible I guess.? They did modify / removed/ merged some scenes quite a bit in both anime seasons and in the movie recap as well... One example found in the movie recap: Corresponding scene from chapter 13 of the manga for comparison: So yeah, I guess Polygon Pictures ARE allowed to change scenes here and there... Maybe they'll get the possibility for an anime orignal ending with Izana x Nagate? I'm interesting in knowing what's the general consensus on this chapter 78 ending and how people feel about Izana being shelved the whole time only to end up with He-Yuhata. Addendum: Someone suggested here that Izana MIGHT in fact be Nodoka's biological mother... Would make sense since Tsumugi/Placenta Hoshijiro 2.0 would just procreate a chimera... Chapter 78 Page 33, right after Nagate is reunited with Nodoka, after she went and piloted solo. He tells her "We have to apologize to mom. Will you COME with me?" While Tsumugi/Placenta Hoshijiro 2.0 is RIGHT next to them... : Chapter 78 Page 34 Right next page we see Nodoka jumps into Izana's arms... : It's an interesting theory. It could be true. But then that'd make Nagate even more of a jerk who just exploited Izana I guess... Not sure if I'd feel better in that case. |
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Aug 6, 2016 11:36 AM
#2
| this ... i support this .. |
| 4th times getting signature banned wtf |
Sep 6, 2016 12:47 AM
#3
| Alternate ending I just came up with, which is none-the-less better: "Nagate now lives happily together with his harem and their many children. The end." Was there any particular reason this ending was so botched? Time-constraints? Decision of the publishers? Simple laziness? |
Sep 17, 2016 4:24 PM
#4
| The ending of chapter 78 gave me a headache |
Nov 12, 2016 10:10 PM
#5
| Well i would like to start with this premise, Nihei is most definitely not a good writer, this is coming from a fan, i liked Sidonia for the first 20 chapters but after sometime and especially towards the end you can see the true colors of this series, Sidonia is made more out of self satisfaction than to tell a "good story". The premise of Sidonia in fact was interesting and it felt like Nihei had passion for this little setting he created but you can see by the middle of story that things happens for no reason or purpose look for example at Nagate's harem, even a robot girl was in the middle of it, for no reason at all it din't add anything to the story, as you were saying Izana and Nagate were the best couple not because Izana is likable but because there was actual development indicating that was going to happens and the infamous ending was a result of Nihei probably trying to satisfy his ego. "Explain wtf was that giant cheese containing the Kabi blades doing there in the middle of nowhere? Who were the Gauna and what was their point? Why did the immortal commitee refused to fight head on and had to be killed by Ochiai's clone? too many unanswered questions." exactly what i was thinking by the end of the series, these questions were't answered in a science fiction setting none the lass, the big problem about Nihei is that he is inconsistent especially regarding to the setting, same guy that wrote Blame (and although i like it) a series with almost no explanation as to what is happening and you either have a action scene or some people walking and no context. Look at things like character development, Nagate is a dense prick, he has the same personality from begging to end and doesn't know whats happening in his surroundings when it comes to relationships, the only motive he's important to the narrative is as a pilot, he feel like a character from any harem show, he's just what i like to call a "functional lucky idiot", funny thing is that there were other characters that were more interesting and got some type of character development that i much rather had as a main protagonist. |
Nov 27, 2016 6:14 AM
#6
MrBeast said: Well i would like to start with this premise, Nihei is most definitely not a good writer, this is coming from a fan, i liked Sidonia for the first 20 chapters but after sometime and especially towards the end you can see the true colors of this series, Sidonia is made more out of self satisfaction than to tell a "good story". The premise of Sidonia in fact was interesting and it felt like Nihei had passion for this little setting he created but you can see by the middle of story that things happens for no reason or purpose look for example at Nagate's harem, even a robot girl was in the middle of it, for no reason at all it din't add anything to the story, as you were saying Izana and Nagate were the best couple not because Izana is likable but because there was actual development indicating that was going to happens and the infamous ending was a result of Nihei probably trying to satisfy his ego. "Explain wtf was that giant cheese containing the Kabi blades doing there in the middle of nowhere? Who were the Gauna and what was their point? Why did the immortal commitee refused to fight head on and had to be killed by Ochiai's clone? too many unanswered questions." exactly what i was thinking by the end of the series, these questions were't answered in a science fiction setting none the lass, the big problem about Nihei is that he is inconsistent especially regarding to the setting, same guy that wrote Blame (and although i like it) a series with almost no explanation as to what is happening and you either have a action scene or some people walking and no context. Look at things like character development, Nagate is a dense prick, he has the same personality from begging to end and doesn't know whats happening in his surroundings when it comes to relationships, the only motive he's important to the narrative is as a pilot, he feel like a character from any harem show, he's just what i like to call a "functional lucky idiot", funny thing is that there were other characters that were more interesting and got some type of character development that i much rather had as a main protagonist. I agree that Sidonia is full of disappointment, but I disagree about 'Nihei is not a good writer'. He is a good writer but in this manga, he failed, and that's how writing a story goes, sometimes it works or it doesn't. If you read Blame (probably you already did)(it's nihei's), you will see his awesomeness. It has a little dialogue, but the way he makes it, pretty epic. It is a pure sci-fi//cyber-punk genre, not like Sidonia "sci-fi but mostly romance comedy". In my opinion, Nihei just tried a new genre to his manga to attract more people since romance/comedy is pretty popular, and cyber-punk now days is nearly a dead genre (examples of good cyberpunk anime: Ghost in Shell, Ergo Proxy, Psycho Pass Season 1 (season 2 and the movie are craps in my opinion)) |
DebaskyNov 27, 2016 6:17 AM
| 4th times getting signature banned wtf |
Nov 27, 2016 7:06 AM
#7
nearbaskara said: MrBeast said: Well i would like to start with this premise, Nihei is most definitely not a good writer, this is coming from a fan, i liked Sidonia for the first 20 chapters but after sometime and especially towards the end you can see the true colors of this series, Sidonia is made more out of self satisfaction than to tell a "good story". The premise of Sidonia in fact was interesting and it felt like Nihei had passion for this little setting he created but you can see by the middle of story that things happens for no reason or purpose look for example at Nagate's harem, even a robot girl was in the middle of it, for no reason at all it din't add anything to the story, as you were saying Izana and Nagate were the best couple not because Izana is likable but because there was actual development indicating that was going to happens and the infamous ending was a result of Nihei probably trying to satisfy his ego. "Explain wtf was that giant cheese containing the Kabi blades doing there in the middle of nowhere? Who were the Gauna and what was their point? Why did the immortal commitee refused to fight head on and had to be killed by Ochiai's clone? too many unanswered questions." exactly what i was thinking by the end of the series, these questions were't answered in a science fiction setting none the lass, the big problem about Nihei is that he is inconsistent especially regarding to the setting, same guy that wrote Blame (and although i like it) a series with almost no explanation as to what is happening and you either have a action scene or some people walking and no context. Look at things like character development, Nagate is a dense prick, he has the same personality from begging to end and doesn't know whats happening in his surroundings when it comes to relationships, the only motive he's important to the narrative is as a pilot, he feel like a character from any harem show, he's just what i like to call a "functional lucky idiot", funny thing is that there were other characters that were more interesting and got some type of character development that i much rather had as a main protagonist. I agree that Sidonia is full of disappointment, but I disagree about 'Nihei is not a good writer'. He is a good writer but in this manga, he failed, and that's how writing a story goes, sometimes it works or it doesn't. If you read Blame (probably you already did)(it's nihei's), you will see his awesomeness. It has a little dialogue, but the way he makes it, pretty epic. It is a pure sci-fi//cyber-punk genre, not like Sidonia "sci-fi but mostly romance comedy". In my opinion, Nihei just tried a new genre to his manga to attract more people since romance/comedy is pretty popular, and cyber-punk now days is nearly a dead genre (examples of good cyberpunk anime: Ghost in Shell, Ergo Proxy, Psycho Pass Season 1 (season 2 and the movie are craps in my opinion)) About Nihei not being a good writer, he's good in visuals presentation but when it comes to dramatic structure, dialog and a consistent plot he's not very good, Blame is one of my favorite manga of all time because of it's visual presentation and the extensive "you need to read in between the lines" type of lore and thought provoking concepts (the dystopian futuristic endless labyrinth resulted from men's desires of expansion, the use of robotics/humans hybrids that almost breaks the line of what humans are) but when it comes to the story (of blame) is freaking confusing to the point that you can only understand to a decent degree after reading it twice and using a lot of angles to understand the text Nihei was trying to push. If you look at his one-shots like sabrina and death heads for example you see that he doesn't have a idea of what he's trying to do, the difference between these two is that sabrina lacks even the style or interesting ideas that blame had while death heads has part of it but unlucky wasn't published. Most probably he's the type of writer that goes with the flow and that's the worst option to begin the writing process, usually a writer had everything in mind (or at lest some idea) before they put a word in the paper (having sort of a beginning,middle and end). With all that being said, he can do something coherent maintaining his style, Biomega (and i still din't finished but...) to what i have read of it was intelligible there was structure, there was a introduction to each characters conflict, you understand who are these people what they trying to stop and what is actually happening. It wasn't a thousand action scenes with nice angles or people walking with no direction arriving in pretty convenient plot points ( and i'm really not trying to insult blame here). In conclusion i don't think he's a bad writer per se, maybe i would retract my statement what i think is that he can be decent at best and to be honest i wouldn't care if he does something like sidonia again (as even sidonia had nice moments and ideas in it's core) the good thing about Nihei is that he always maintained his style in some way, one of the good thing about his writing is the darker grim elements that even are present in something like sidonia (chapter 57 of sidonia was amazing and i wished there was more of that) |
PassionGunshiNov 27, 2016 7:15 AM
Nov 27, 2016 10:11 AM
#8
MrBeast said: nearbaskara said: MrBeast said: Well i would like to start with this premise, Nihei is most definitely not a good writer, this is coming from a fan, i liked Sidonia for the first 20 chapters but after sometime and especially towards the end you can see the true colors of this series, Sidonia is made more out of self satisfaction than to tell a "good story". The premise of Sidonia in fact was interesting and it felt like Nihei had passion for this little setting he created but you can see by the middle of story that things happens for no reason or purpose look for example at Nagate's harem, even a robot girl was in the middle of it, for no reason at all it din't add anything to the story, as you were saying Izana and Nagate were the best couple not because Izana is likable but because there was actual development indicating that was going to happens and the infamous ending was a result of Nihei probably trying to satisfy his ego. "Explain wtf was that giant cheese containing the Kabi blades doing there in the middle of nowhere? Who were the Gauna and what was their point? Why did the immortal commitee refused to fight head on and had to be killed by Ochiai's clone? too many unanswered questions." exactly what i was thinking by the end of the series, these questions were't answered in a science fiction setting none the lass, the big problem about Nihei is that he is inconsistent especially regarding to the setting, same guy that wrote Blame (and although i like it) a series with almost no explanation as to what is happening and you either have a action scene or some people walking and no context. Look at things like character development, Nagate is a dense prick, he has the same personality from begging to end and doesn't know whats happening in his surroundings when it comes to relationships, the only motive he's important to the narrative is as a pilot, he feel like a character from any harem show, he's just what i like to call a "functional lucky idiot", funny thing is that there were other characters that were more interesting and got some type of character development that i much rather had as a main protagonist. I agree that Sidonia is full of disappointment, but I disagree about 'Nihei is not a good writer'. He is a good writer but in this manga, he failed, and that's how writing a story goes, sometimes it works or it doesn't. If you read Blame (probably you already did)(it's nihei's), you will see his awesomeness. It has a little dialogue, but the way he makes it, pretty epic. It is a pure sci-fi//cyber-punk genre, not like Sidonia "sci-fi but mostly romance comedy". In my opinion, Nihei just tried a new genre to his manga to attract more people since romance/comedy is pretty popular, and cyber-punk now days is nearly a dead genre (examples of good cyberpunk anime: Ghost in Shell, Ergo Proxy, Psycho Pass Season 1 (season 2 and the movie are craps in my opinion)) About Nihei not being a good writer, he's good in visuals presentation but when it comes to dramatic structure, dialog and a consistent plot he's not very good, Blame is one of my favorite manga of all time because of it's visual presentation and the extensive "you need to read in between the lines" type of lore and thought provoking concepts (the dystopian futuristic endless labyrinth resulted from men's desires of expansion, the use of robotics/humans hybrids that almost breaks the line of what humans are) but when it comes to the story (of blame) is freaking confusing to the point that you can only understand to a decent degree after reading it twice and using a lot of angles to understand the text Nihei was trying to push. If you look at his one-shots like sabrina and death heads for example you see that he doesn't have a idea of what he's trying to do, the difference between these two is that sabrina lacks even the style or interesting ideas that blame had while death heads has part of it but unlucky wasn't published. Most probably he's the type of writer that goes with the flow and that's the worst option to begin the writing process, usually a writer had everything in mind (or at lest some idea) before they put a word in the paper (having sort of a beginning,middle and end). With all that being said, he can do something coherent maintaining his style, Biomega (and i still din't finished but...) to what i have read of it was intelligible there was structure, there was a introduction to each characters conflict, you understand who are these people what they trying to stop and what is actually happening. It wasn't a thousand action scenes with nice angles or people walking with no direction arriving in pretty convenient plot points ( and i'm really not trying to insult blame here). In conclusion i don't think he's a bad writer per se, maybe i would retract my statement what i think is that he can be decent at best and to be honest i wouldn't care if he does something like sidonia again (as even sidonia had nice moments and ideas in it's core) the good thing about Nihei is that he always maintained his style in some way, one of the good thing about his writing is the darker grim elements that even are present in something like sidonia (chapter 57 of sidonia was amazing and i wished there was more of that) I see your point, I think this Sidonia is full of experimenting popular genres, no one bother with his work after Polygon make an 3d anime of it, (even I didn't know about Sidonia before the anime was released). I hope Nihei will make a pure SCI-FI Action again since he's so terrible making a romance in my opinion, and also the main character is just like you said, very weak and a real crap. Killy disappointed. |
| 4th times getting signature banned wtf |
Feb 23, 2017 7:53 AM
#9
| Hello everyone! First, Excuse me for my poor English, it isn't my native lenguage Google is helping me a little (by the way, it doesn’t translate too well) I'm one of many fans that just watched the season 2 on Netflix, and I love it! When I finished the Season 2, I was really anxious to know what happens at the ending with the characters, I’m a romantic person ;p, I was hoping for a happy ending with Izana and Nagate… but I made the mistake of reading the manga. Now, I think it has been a mistake to know this series, because my heart it's broken. I feel so bad that it is impossible for me to revise the anime and see the Izana expressions… I read all the post I found on the internet about the series , and it has been a relief to see that there are many fans who think the same as me, what happened in Nihei's head to destroy the ending of the manga? Why Polygon Pictures has focused more on Izana's relationship with Nagate, if their ending will be separate? Many scenes in the anime are changed from order to manga to build a more complex story and more focused on the relationship between Nagate and Izana and Tsumugi. In the manga also happens, but many details are added in the anime to increase the romantic tension. I must say that from the beginning I fell in love with Izana, she’s the most complex character in history, and the one that evolves most and the one who comes closest to Nagate, from the beginning she is with him, she accompanies him, resigned to being his friend for the moment , Clearly from the beginning shows interest in Nagate. From my point of view it’s Oshijiro who appears in the middle of the story, and Izana is resigned. But Oshijiro dies quickly, so why take so many turns to the same? Poor Izana, she is always displaced by the other girls, when she is talking to Nagate always someone pushes her, and she is resigned ... it is impossible not to empathize with her! They will live together, like some friends, yes, but always read between the lines that there is something else. The scene in the stairs when Izana wears the dress, Nágate is attracted clearly by her! Both are blushing! Then in the cultural mission they hold hands in Shensuko and Nagate is blushing too, then he says "of course I care" in the lake, back in the house are again blushing. In bath scene, with Yukata and Tsumugi, Nagate hear about the change from Izana to woman... Slowly the feelings are making their way between the two. Yukata always plays very dirty with Izana. When Nagate kills Gauna in the battle of planet 9, he finally recognizes that Oshijiro is dead. At the victory’s party, Nágate asks Kunato for Oshijiro, and he look briefly at Izana, then changes the name to Gauna, clearly to hide his still latent feelings, but does not want to close the door to Izana. In an interview with the director and Nihei, they were asked about the increased emotional and sexual load in the anime, and both laughed. Has it been on purpose to change the end of the manga? Or did they want to troll the fans? Nihei also recognized that invents the argument while he draws, so there are perhaps as sudden changes in the argument, and many things do not make sense. That's not writing a story well, I think! In the manga there’s not as much sexual load, and the ending hurts less, but if you have seen the anime, you are broken inside. The voices, the expressions of Izana, her sighs, her face of jealousy ... all this makes you live the story with much more intensity. I don't know if finally we will see a third season… Sincerely I hope Polygon Pictures will change the ending and offer us a Nagate ending with Izana, and Tsumugi, as his daughter. Since it is what we have seen at all time in Season 2. Nagate with Tsumugi? And then Nagate with… what?? Izana with Yukata? WTF!! Impossible for me. Much has already been said about it. There is no argument for that. Tsumugi's personality it's like a child clearly, and Nagate and Izana always act as if they are their childminder, like a parents, it is too rare for me, and for many people, Nagate to end Tsumugi. I’m thinking in writing a letter to Nihei and Seshita explaining, with all possible respect, my impressions, and my requests. I know they are not just mine, and that many fans agree with me. And I know I will not be heard, I don't want to offend Nihei as an author. But I think it is important to comunicate our impressions. I kwow that Oshijiro’s fan club it’s big too… but, I think the construction of the character of Izana is much more solid. What do you think, may be crazy idea? Sincerely, an ending in the anime, like manga, will be a failure, for Polygon Pictures, and for Netflix, and I do not think they want to risk that. Nihei got tired of the manga and wanted to finish it quickly to focus on other projects? I don't know ... I don't want to read anything else about him. A good manga is the one that leaves you good flavor, it does not matter that in the middle of the story sometimes it is loose in some moments, if the end is well, you always have a good impression. If the end sucks ... the whole manga is. I know I'm very focused on the sentimental part, but I've read a lot of manga, I've seen a lot of anime, and the feelings are fundamental in these genres, and a bad resolution of both, is to end up with a bad manga, or a bad anime. What do you think? The truth is that it is a relief for me to express myself here. I have ended up very depressed, and that I’m an old nerd. Thanks, and sorry for my English. |
Figura4Feb 23, 2017 12:16 PM
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