Paul didn't commit rape, stop saying he did

MyllerPhiem said:

It's slightly different in the light novel where Lilia says that 'she didn't hate it', but also says that it was 'forcibly done/against her will'.

JanPri said:
Could I ask you where did you read this? Because there's nothing like that in my copy of the LN. She never mentioned it was done against her will. And since she was also a swordswoman in training, she could have defended herself if it was.
And do you really think she would seduce him after he took her virginity "against her will" in the past? Even Zenith herself said she would have never fell in love with somebody who would be able of something like that...

JanPri said:
Could I ask you where did you read this? Because there's nothing like that in my copy of the LN. She never mentioned it was done against her will. And since she was also a swordswoman in training, she could have defended herself if it was.
And do you really think she would seduce him after he took her virginity "against her will" in the past? Even Zenith herself said she would have never fell in love with somebody who would be able of something like that...

MyllerPhiem said:


You read the japanese version? it says "muriyari", which is pretty clear.

JanPri said:
I read the official English version. And I just simply can't find anything like that (against will/forcibly/...); I even checked it again now. So it was either deleted (I doubt it), the book is poorly translated or you're wrong and are misremembering it.

MyllerPhiem said:


Again, the original japanese LN says "muriyari". So I guess the English version is poorly translated then, probably because Western people lose their shit when rape is mentioned ... as evidenced by this forum, lol.

JanPri said:
I read the official English version. And I just simply can't find anything like that (against will/forcibly/...); I even checked it again now. So it was either deleted (I doubt it), the book is poorly translated or you're wrong and are misremembering it.

Wellwisher said:


Official english version of (at least) vol.1 is missing the whole paragraphs of text, including the line about this incident being forceful and her crying afterwards.

For example (I hope links would work):
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/649372362554212372/805543031469637752/mt01comp1.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/649372362554212372/805543068371124281/mt01comp2.png

JanPri said:
What... Are you for real? You're kidding, right? Where did you find it? Did they seriously delete whole paragraphs of text? I can't believe this... Now I want my money back. But even before that; Why would they do this?

Wellwisher said:


Official english version of (at least) vol.1 is missing the whole paragraphs of text, including the line about this incident being forceful and her crying afterwards.

For example (I hope links would work):
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/649372362554212372/805543031469637752/mt01comp1.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/649372362554212372/805543068371124281/mt01comp2.png

Wellwisher said:


A few people on discord server noticed that some lines that were present in the anime were missing from official release and asked people capable of reading JP to check.
Why Seven Seas did this? No idea. May be censorship, may be overzealous editor prettying up text too much, may be some corporate guideline. If I had to guess, I'd pick option 2 or 3 as Classroom of the Elite vol.7 has exact same problems and the omissions look too random for it to be option 1.

cooldude123456 said:
I feel like some people dropped on their heads when they were babies. Anyone with any amount of common sense should understand that it makes no sense that a women would choose to work for a man who raped her, then chose to move hundreds of miles away from her home to work for him, then seduce him and marry him and bear his children.

FioraSam said:
no you got everything wrong, it's just the "realistic world" that the author created to fulfil all his fetishes and where this kind of behavior actually make sense. Saying that a high fantasy setting is realistic is really dumb.

MyllerPhiem said:
I translated it myself, then checked it with dictionaries. Because this is what a Japanese dictionary translates 寝込みを襲う as:
https://www.excite.co.jp/dictionary/...A5%B2%E3%81%86

"To surprise someone in their sleep", exactly what I translated it as before.

純血をちらし also is much less dramatic as you make it sound, that's just Japanese being the flowery language it always is. I just recently learnt 鼻くそ which means 'snot' - but literally, it's 'nose shit'. That's how Japanese is.

Nobody has said that Paul didn't do something shady, but unless you claim to be a Japanese expert (something that I've been learning the language for over a decade to eventually become one), I think there's nothing in the anime that goes beyond the following:

- Paul sneaked into the girls' dorm at night
- he surprise Lilia in her sleep
- they had sex, during which Lilia lost her virginity
- Paul was chased away because the above was against the dojo rules

Whether there's rape involved or not simply isn't mentioned. And we know that Lilia likes Paul, she chose to become his maid and she seduced him while working there, her own words.

If there's rape involved, that would be a later revelation, but from this episode, it is NOWHERE to be found.

MiiyoSon said:
You call this a defense?

Hamakami said:


In the WN





This is why its so hard to find more nuanced stories with less than perfect characters - because the moral busy bodies come in pearl clutching and ree-ing - all the while being fueled by a "progressive" biased translation industry stateside where they are constantly script-doctoring away from the actual dialogue and into "Pesky patriarchal societal demands getting" on everyone's nerves -just to erect a straw man so others - like you - can come along and proudly burn it down then strut as though you did anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmE76l2bZtA

Paul is imperfect - this does not go unexplored later in the series - This isn't a series like others - a lot of characters change a significant amount throughout the series - a significant amount. Some for the better, some for the worst. The character you see initiall rarely ever ends up the character at the end of their journey. This isn't like MHA where Midori is essentially the same exact character week to week just put in different situations.

MiiyoSon said:


The show mentions in a passing line (which is bullshit btw) that prior to Lilia becoming their maid,Paul and her went to a dojo together when they were young. During that time Paul had assaulted Lilia in her sleep, deflowered her and then ran away. Another set of EN subs uses the word "violated" The words underlined have very clear connotations to them. Whether ya'll want to admit the shit or not, Paul raped Lillia when they were young.

Now I give no fucks whether about the MoRaLiTy of this show or any show for that matter. But ya'll are looking nuts trying to sugarcoat what Paul did in an effort to downplay what others are havinga problem with. If Paul is going to be flawed, let him be flawed and if it's too much for some viewers to handle then let them be

Hamakami said:


In the story he didn't.

In the SJW purposely mistranslated subs story they heavily imply that he did.

MiiyoSon said:


So is this SJW to you?
https://gamefaqs1.cbsistatic.com/user_image/4/0/4/AANI-BAABbps.jpg

Hamakami said:


It was a change from the LN/WN and a change that did not make an appearance in the anime.

I just posted the copy/paste segments "concerning this" from the WN for you. There is no "he assaulted her" - further - she specifically sought out employment from him. The Manga apparently botched the story. I confess- I never read the Manga.

MiiyoSon said:



Bruh it even says on the wiki
https://imgur.com/g9DX6fi

Hamakami said:


I'll say it again.

It's not in the LN.
It's not in the WN.
It's not in the Anime.

MiiyoSon said:


Then why is it on the wiki for this series if it's not in any of those pieces of media.?

Hamakami said:


Does it matter?

If you are going to say "Paul is a rapist" in the anime because of what the Manga says - it's more valid to say "he isn't a rapist" because of what the WN says - the principle and first source.

If you are going to say we cannot take what the WN or LN say on the matter because they are their own stories - then the same applies to the anime - which is separate to the manga.

"I'm mad"

[Here is a solution]

"I don't want a solution, I want to be mad!"

MiiyoSon said:

...The Wiki covers exactly what the WN had dude and it said that Paul sexually assaulted/raped Lilia... If you don't believe me you can go and look over there yourself.

MiiyoSon said:

...The Wiki covers exactly what the WN had dude and it said that Paul sexually assaulted/raped Lilia... If you don't believe me you can go and look over there yourself.

Hamakami said:


Then drop the show if you don't want to believe me.

Altter said:


To be fair the Wikipedia is a community contribution. Depending on the activeness of the Admins, it can contains wrong info, either from innocent readers who misinterpreted, or even from trollers. i know that since I'm a wiki admin myself.

Not saying it's right or wrong, just want to say that info on wiki shouldn't be taken as absolute truth.

MiiyoSon said:


A guy posted a passage from the the WN on reddit. Highlighted in the reddit thread
https://www.reddit.com/r/mushokutensei/comments/hxm9mg/paul_being_a_literal_scum_bag/fzqag64/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

This is from people who have also read the source material. That's from the OG source material. I'm not pulling any of this out of my ass here.

Enorats said:
So, I'm just going to toss this out there in hopes that someone can hopefully clarify what I just read.

I've been watching the anime, and decided to read the.. well, I think it's a fan translated version of the LN? Might be the WN. I'm honestly not sure if there's a difference. Regardless, it's English because I don't know any Japanese.

I just got to the part where Lilia is telling her side of the story with regards to the pregnancy, and she's describing her "first time".

"It was a forced attack during the night. Even though I didn't hate him, I didn't like him either. The first time wasn't very romantic, and I shed tears right then."

Like, what? Is that translated right? I can't imagine how it could be interpreted as anything other than rape, but the anime never even came close to depicting Paul that way.. and it's a bit weird that Lilia would choose to live with a man who raped her as a kid.

MyllerPhiem said:
I translated it myself, then checked it with dictionaries. Because this is what a Japanese dictionary translates 寝込みを襲う as:
https://www.excite.co.jp/dictionary/...A5%B2%E3%81%86
"To surprise someone in their sleep", exactly what I translated it as before.
純血をちらし also is much less dramatic as you make it sound, that's just Japanese being the flowery language it always is. I just recently learnt 鼻くそ which means 'snot' - but literally, it's 'nose shit'. That's how Japanese is.
Nobody has said that Paul didn't do something shady, but unless you claim to be a Japanese expert (something that I've been learning the language for over a decade to eventually become one), I think there's nothing in the anime that goes beyond the following:
- Paul sneaked into the girls' dorm at night
- he surprise Lilia in her sleep
- they had sex, during which Lilia lost her virginity
- Paul was chased away because the above was against the dojo rules
Whether there's rape involved or not simply isn't mentioned. And we know that Lilia likes Paul, she chose to become his maid and she seduced him while working there, her own words.
If there's rape involved, that would be a later revelation, but from this episode, it is NOWHERE to be found.