| Stance: Nay. (Surprise! It's the devil's advocate.) Narutard. Although there are those whose wear the name with pride, it's clear that the label is meant and used by many as a derogatory term, being a portmanteau of the words "Naruto" and "retard". But besides being an insult, I think it's also the reason why Naruto is the recipient of much criticism. Yes, the main characters are stereotypical kids, several emos are featured, the art is so-so, the direction of the anime is mediocre, and the story itself isn't the most original out there. But one thing that we have to keep in mind is that it's meant to appeal to younger audiences. Despite its popularity, nobody expects the Harry Potter series to have the same qualities that made The Prophet Kahlil Gibran's best-known work. Similarly, I don't think it's proper to judge Naruto by the standards of more mature literary works simply because it's not meant to be placed in the same category. So why all the hate? It's because of the fans. Sure, it's forgivable for kids below the age of 10 to act in a childish manner. But when teens and older readers/viewers who should know better use Naruto as an outlet for their puerile impulses, it's another matter altogether. And because of it's popularity, Naruto inevitably gets the most marketing and the largest share of idiots. With this, the anime/manga itself eventually share the stigma of being associated with immaturity and being pathetic in general. |
YuunagiOct 12, 2007 7:09 AM
| Damn you Devil's advocate! You pointed out genuine truth about hatred towards Naruto-ism. No point of discusing it anymore, isn't it? |
 Help the poor Ninja! Click Billy vs Snakeman link today! |
yokokurama91 said: hey... sasuke is so much better than naruto.... khem... We are talking about Naruto show here, not about which character is cooler/better/funnier or what ever. |
Help the poor Ninja! Click Billy vs Snakeman link today! |
| Case in point (younger audiences). Note to self: Do not kill the topic on the first post. (-_-) |
YuunagiOct 12, 2007 10:11 AM
| Not that I want to beat a dead horse but supposing the author (Masashi Kishimoto) suddenly insists on moving the series to a seinen magazine and claims that his work is on the same level as, say, Lone Wolf and Cub or Gunslinger Girl in terms of depth, character development, etc., how would you shoot him down or back him up? |
| Manga = Great |
| How would i shoot him down? Probably at night in some alley. I'd make him suffer. Is that the answer you wanted? |
Help the poor Ninja! Click Billy vs Snakeman link today! |
| My position on naruto is pretty well know, but i might as well reinforce it... To me, Naruto takes everything I thought anime was, before I liked it, and puts it into a show. You see, I used to dislike anime, SERIOUSLY disliked it. I used to think that all anime was, was a bunch of idiots talking about how they were gonna fight, no actual fighting, just talking. Luckilly for me, I discovered a little series that changed my perspective, and proved to me that anime CAN involve thought. as to naruto, its simply your average kids show... not much reason for hate... however its the fans that truly drive me into insainity. Just a few days ago, i was hanging out with a few of my friends, we got into a bunch of 4chan jokes... and well, I said "Guro is Horrible" the person at the next table over herd this and came over threatening me. "HOW DARE YOU INSULT NARUTO!!!" I simply responded with "I said guro... gory hentai... not naruto" he just laughed and responded with "Good... cause if you had said naruto i would have kicked your ass." I simply laughed as he went back to his table... That is what makes me hate Naruto more than any other generic shonen. |
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| There are sufficent arguments in your first post as to why Naruto is bad from an artistic view, but it is true that the reason many people hate Naruto is because of the fans. Harry Potter was a children's book which was uber-popular because it's combination of young but strong characters with adult morality themes and a smooth writing style. You yourself pointed out earlier that this is not the case with much of Naruto. For me, it's more the problem that anime sales and consequent ratings are a competition, one in which quantity beats quality more often than it has any right to. I don't object to Naruto having lots of fans. I do object to it's having more popularity and consequent sales than an arguably better-quality Shonen such as Hajime no Ippo (yearly OVAs ftw!) because, when it promotes itself past the point where it deserves to sell based on quality, it also detracts attention from the other, better shows. Arguably, the best anime should not only be available to those who have watched anime for years. It has fans more because it's an "entry level" anime that people stick with than because it's actually a good anime. Apologies for the lack of quotes. My continuous point-by-point rebuttal megaposts here and in the "Nymphet" news thread have used up my allocated bandwith :P. |
| Shameless Blog Plugging: animetics.net |
| nay. Naruto rocks. |
 92% of teens have moved on to rap. If you are part of the 8% who still listens to real music, copy and paste this into your signature.... |
kittycopper said: nay. Naruto rocks. That's quite an argument. Care to elaborate? Besides, how can this show "rock" without any guitars or drumsets? |
| Shameless Blog Plugging: animetics.net |
Torisunanohokori said: kittycopper said: nay. Naruto rocks. That's quite an argument. Care to elaborate? Besides, how can this show "rock" without any guitars or drumsets? Perhaps he means we should chuck rocks at it. I'm all for that. Naruto itself is decked with the standard trademarks of the standard endless Shounen series. The upbeat, occasionally/frequently annoying young protagonist who always pulls through when it counts wishes to be the top of his vocational field, and of course must stand against or with practically everyone else in the known world to achieve his goal, or even in the unknown world, as the series stretches on and the author is forced to resort to new rivals and antagonists from seemingly no where. It's a standard formula, powered by life lessons and the power tiers. And there will always be a super plot device move. Always. Now some series might shake this up, such as (if I may namedrop another such series) JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, which over its 20 year run has avoided growing stale by such means as change of locales, story line, time period, even main characters entirely (all within narrative reason, of course), and also not making every single battle about power, but rather wits and guts. But even then, there is still the super plot device move. In this case, Naruto is not so much "Bad" as some say, or even "Garbage" as others describe it. Instead it is average, mediocre. Not that a show aimed at young boys needs to try incredibly hard to entertain them, which is why I scratch my head when considerably older people talk about watching the show and reading the Manga. Any credibility the series had has been effectively washed away anyway in pandering to the target demographic, with an apparently universally disliked filler arc accounting for roughly HALF the entire show (which runs roughly 200 episodes. That's a lot of dislike to go around.). Not to mention that at so many mass produced episodes, art quality goes down the drain. Where's that still frame of a headless Naruto again? Fans of the show have always asked that I not judge it by the fillers, which would be an acceptably request at just a handful of episodes, but 80~? That's longer than most shows. Monster told a deep suspense thriller in 74 episodes. And Naruto? But, while Naruto itself is merely run of the mill, its fans are what make it unbearable, over-celebrating its mediocrity, stressing its own supremacy over all other titles, and lavishing attention on it where other titles are not only more deserving, but sometimes actively ignored in place of it. It's sad, really. So many decent series slipping through the cracks. Naruto itself is "Meh," made unbearable by the rampant, often frightening fandom. It's fine for its intended audience of young children, but makes me stare at the wall for extended periods of time when anyone older than 13 raves about it. Also, female-jitsur-Naruto is one of the most horrifying things I have ever seen in my life. EDIT: Aaaaaaand I just realized I just said what was said in the first post. |
BadSeafoodNov 16, 2007 3:46 AM
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| i cant say Aye or Nay the show has many faults but also many good parts, Im on the line here :P I dont have anything important to add to the conversation/topic >.< |
| Frankly, if you like Naruto because it's a mindless way to kill time, and you recognize it as such, then it's fine. However, if you're a twenty year old, who goes to college, and you tout Naruto as the greatest anime ever, and wear those stupid-ass headbands (I'm rather specific because I know multiple people at my university who fit this description), well then, it's apparant that Naruto is quite possibly the ONLY anime you have ever seen, unless the others are like dubbed Dragon Ball GT, or Final Fantasy: Unlimited or crap like that. I have friends who like Naruto, so it's not simply "the fans" that are worthy of scorn, but it's the wannabe whack jobs that think spouting off nonsense and carrying plastic shuriken in your pocket make you a ninja (again, I know these people) that need to feel the waves of disgust that emit from anime fans everywhere. Personally though, I find Naruto to be garbage. Perhaps better than some, but certainly not many. |
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