| Why did you throw Avenger into the Mix? It has nothing to do with Girls with Guns or Amnesiacs. As for the others, MADLAX, Noir and El Cazador de la Bruja are all spiritual successors to each other, they aren't direct sequels as some people like to pin them as. Phantom is not a successor to the others. Phantom is based off a game, the other three are original works. Phantom has some elements of the others but that's because of Koichi Mashimo's direction. He has certain styles and trademarks of directing, like any other director so you're noticing them more. If it were any other studio and director no one would be asking this question. But one can see why Nitro took this project to BEE TRAIN to begin with. You are right about the whole Girls With Guns has been something they've staked into the market, but it isn't strictly unique to their studio. BEE TRAIN's signature works have come through those main GwG shows comparably to any other production they've done, even .hack//. Tsubasa draws more notice simply because of the rabid Clamp fans. On a final note BEE TRAIN is also only 12 years old, therefor they don't have an exceptional amount of works under their belts compared to their colleagues in the business. They also left their former Parent Production I.G therefor they only take on so many projects at once, and Mashimo is the only regular director. I can't say for sure about if any other studio has had a signature line of work over the years as most of the major anime studios that produce have been around a lot longer and have significantly more amount of produced animes, and that's excluding the "for-hire" work like tweening. |
| My Channel Anime Reviews, Unboxings and More Drak Shadow For LetsPlays and Movie Vlogs |
| This anime is based off of Phantom of Inferno, a visual novel which came out in 2000, a year before Noir. Noir, Madlax and El Cazador were all influenced by Phantom of Inferno, not the other way around. Phantom of Inferno also happens to be far superior to all of those 3 in terms of writing, and is a love story at its core, unlike those 3. It's a bad idea to judge an entire series off of the first couple of episodes. You'll see how different the direction is that Phantom takes by episode 12. |
tehnominator said: ShadowAlex said: Why did you throw Avenger into the Mix? It has nothing to do with Girls with Guns or Amnesiacs. Wasn't that little girl, Nai, an amnesiac? If she wasn't, then I must be, but Avenger was so bloody boring, everything that transpired was easily forgotten. Mmm I'll probably have to ask my friend again but I don't think Nei was amnesiac. |
| My Channel Anime Reviews, Unboxings and More Drak Shadow For LetsPlays and Movie Vlogs |
| I haven't played the game it was based on, but strictly speaking based on the older anime version and the 6 episodes released so far of this version, Phantom is only similar to Noir (which i also liked quite a bit) at surface level. Once you watch like half the episodes in either and look at them more in depth, the differences start to pile up. About the only similarity is there is a young pretty female assassin who starts the series acting without emotion and gradually warms to her partner (although not romantically in Noir). Oh and that they take assassination jobs, but one takes them for money and one for some organized crime group. Also the memory loss, but in the case of phantom it is for the purpose of brain washing Ein in to the perfect killing machine. This is similar to saying To Aru Majutsu no Index is like Claymore (Great anime) because they both have a guy running around with a mysterious woman with strange powers. |
| Secret organizations are present in many stories. The main characters' relation to the secret organization is different in noir and phantom though, one group working for and one against. While the main characters in both noir and phantom are assassins, noir's characters take odd (assassin) jobs for money, in my opinion making them somewhat different. Money vs total devotion to the organization. Amnesiacs? I suppose, but at least talking about the other phantom series (since this one isn't there yet), phantom's memory wiping varies in that their old lives just aren't important to the series or the characters (after a point). Noir differs in that the whole series is about them finding out about their pasts. the cold main character who warms to another character can apply to an uncountable number of stories, including Claymore and index. guns being present is because they're the most effective weapon in a realistic modern day setting. Although my favorite character in Noir doesn't use guns. Although i haven't seen it, the description of madlax does sound exactly like noir which i have seen obviously. |
MurbellaMay 7, 2009 2:56 PM
tehnominator said: It seems that I must come across as a Bee Train hater, which is far from the truth; as a fan of them, I'd like to see them try other things. Murder Princess and that one short from Batman: Gotham Knight and Medabots are probably the only things with no amnesiacs, assassins or girls with guns. No, because Phantom is too specifically close to the other Bee Train anime. The only difference I've seen so far is the fact that there's a guy and they're not in France. I get what your saying, it seems Mashimo has had a strong niche in this market but I still think the comparsion is foolish. Again as I mentioned BT is 12 years old, give them some time and they're going to make more variety as they get more projects. Don't forget as well they did Meine Libe (though I'm not very familiar with the plot) and Popolocrosis (a fantasy sword and sorcery) Arc the Lad (fantasy adventure) the .hack// franchise (sci-fi, mystery though SIGN also had an amnesiac lol) Blade of the Immortal, and Tsubasa Chronicle (with an amesiac but also fairly different). Many directors/studios have a niche. I mean James Cameron has a strong background in Sci-fi films (with the exception of Titanic). Secret organisations? Check. Assassins? Check. Amnesiacs? Check. Aloof girl who eventually warms to main character? Check about three times (Kirika to Mireille; Margaret to... well, everyone; Ellis to Nadie). Guns? Check. Gunslinger Girl: Assasins: Check Amnesiacs: Check Aloof Girl: Maybe I only saw one episode So what's the comparison, you might as well Compare Gunslinger Girl to the others as well. |
| My Channel Anime Reviews, Unboxings and More Drak Shadow For LetsPlays and Movie Vlogs |
| This is a genre show. If you don't like the genre, don't watch it -- it's that simple. If you like the genre, perhaps, do some research or think critically about the works, rather than looking solely at superficialities. Even with inevitable similarities, significant differences in character development, story, emplotment, narrative, presentation, thematic emphasis, etc. should be self-evident if you've actually done either. Personally, I've enjoyed all three works in the girls-with-guns trilogy as well as many other assassin, secret organization, and/or amnesiac protagonist narratives in anime, live action television, and film. I'm also enjoying this show. Really, this thread is obliquely indicative of a frequent problem I notice on these forums and elsewhere in which people seem to lack the ability to critically examine works in any meaningful manner, instead reducing them to a series of so-called cliches, while ignoring any innovation in this assembly. This is not to say all works should be equally regarded, that similarities cannot be classified, or opinions don't matter, but rather that merely pointing out cliche or similarity to other works without examining how these comparisons arise, function, and are possibly undermined is completely useless outside of personal affirmation. It's equivalent to making observations about the location you're in -- "this is a lamp," "here is a table," "the sky is blue," etc. [/end soapbox] |
chicanerousMay 8, 2009 9:20 PM
| You people are missing the point of technominator's post. It doesnt matter what was released when or what a genre is comprised of. The point is Bee Train's actions, the company's attitude and apparent manifesto of regurgitating the same shit (or 'template' for sensitive people) over and over again. |
"I'm starting to think mal is run by Xinil generating electricity on a bicycle." - idklol |
tehnominator said: What makes Phantom weak is that is does not try to be any different from the other anime of its genre. Noir was different in the beginning since when it was first released, it was different. Action, gun battles, assassins were never handled that way before in anime. Then MADLAX came along, and rather than homage, it ended up being some sort of uninspired rip off. Rethink or re-watch MADLAX, seriously, it's nothing like Noir, that's a good thing. Noir's story is very simplistic if you ask me. MADLAX was far more thought provoking and emotional. You wan't uninspired rip-off Gunslinger girl was a mopey version of them both. The OAV still is superior in terms of storytelling, since this TV version, while it is more attractive and leaves room for both story and character development, is bogged down by Bee Train's style of presenting the same thing over and over in the same way. It's as a fan I say that they need to branch out, because I've heard one too many people complain and not even give the works of this production company a shot because they all notice that they've been pumping out the same anime over and over again. As in what? If your talking the directing styles, get over it, because you will find that in just about any anime, at least animes that have more directorial involvement from the main director. I've found BT more appealing because they are more independent have have a higher continuity in style as opposed to the giants. What is bogging down the story, the slow pacing? Does every series need to race by at 80000 MPH? You can't take a break every now and again? Innovation? Name me one scene in Phantom that has been innovative. There are cliches, and when they are there, you cannot stop looking at them like some sort of growth or boil. The best you can hope for is someone to cover it up nicely, and I've yet to see them do it in Phantom. What kind of innovation? Just about everything they've done has been a radical departure from past works. Yes, this is a lamp. And oh, look, there's another lamp just like it. And another, and another and another. Now which lamp should I get? Lamp? Now what are you doing, fishing out from nowhere? And ultimatley so what? If they have a niche genre let them. No one complains about Ghibli's fantasy films now do they? No I'm not comparing Studio Ghibli to Bee Train, i'm saying some studios or directors have a genre they like, and they return to it. Calling that unoriginal is assanine, Hey doesn't Studio Pierott churn out of 8000 fillers of DBZ clones called Naruto and Bleach? Doesn't Shounen Jump only publish Shounen which are more half-baked than someone who likes to do camera pans? Really is it? Oh better yet, how about Kyoto's thing for H-Games? No really answer me this question again, why are you asking this question of BT and no one else? Are you genuinely curious or just trying to be poignant? |
ShadowBlazer3000May 21, 2009 11:11 PM
| My Channel Anime Reviews, Unboxings and More Drak Shadow For LetsPlays and Movie Vlogs |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Phantom Requiem for the Phantom Episode 1 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 )Mikiyo - Apr 3, 2009 |
172 |
by prozyne
»»
Dec 18, 12:17 AM |
|
Poll: » Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~ Episode 26 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )LadyOrihime - Sep 24, 2009 |
641 |
by isck1
»»
Aug 4, 4:57 AM |
|
Poll: » Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~ Episode 25 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 )LadyOrihime - Sep 17, 2009 |
181 |
by ryylsz
»»
May 21, 6:29 AM |
|
Poll: » Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~ Episode 23 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )kerobear - Sep 3, 2009 |
142 |
by ryylsz
»»
May 21, 5:23 AM |
|
Poll: » Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~ Episode 22 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 )tsubasalover - Aug 27, 2009 |
161 |
by ryylsz
»»
May 21, 4:45 AM |