Who is really the bad person

Jul 27, 4:56 PM

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Apr 2023

21

They are just kids, they become good or bad person depending on the environment they live in. They are both victims and that makes them villains. Is it their parents fault? exactly, but they also have their own problems. But is that enough to justify their actions? No. There is no one real villain, like in real life imo.

Jul 27, 5:00 PM

#3

Obitozz

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Nov 2020

11

hiruinthefridge said:
They are just kids, they become good or bad person depending on the environment they live in. They are both victims and that makes them villains. Is it their parents fault? exactly, but they also have their own problems. But is that enough to justify their actions? No. There is no one real villain, like in real life imo.

Exactly. we are basically of the same opinion

Jul 27, 5:07 PM

#4

OhNoNotRabbits

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Jan 2023

20

The adults are the bad people. These kids are just trying to survive and desperately cling to some sort of happiness in childhood.

Jul 27, 5:13 PM

#5

99Noagra

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Mar 2024

2

I feel like objectively Marina the worst person between her and Shizuka from elementary school kids. By explaining, Shizuka was brutalized by Marina without Takopi there and I still question if Shizuka was supposed to die while Takopi wasn’t there in new timeline where he was supposed to fulfill future Marina’s wish to kill Suzuka. It’s the tricky subject about time travel in anime. I feel like the past for Future Marina was different from what we saw especially in Episode 5. Marina was tormented and brutalized and ended up with Azuma. I got to say the theories in the anime are genius and nuts especially with the time lines. I even question Happy Plant and the gadgets role in the series. I like how series makes each character take the blame for bad things like A Silent Voice, Clannad, and Neon Genesis Evangelion. The story/writing isn’t masterclass by most fans which I disagree with. I overall think what Marina did in first 2 episodes was worst things that can affect a person, but I see how the blame of her actions come from all the parents who are complete scumbags. Right now, I feel like Shizuka on this depression and traumatized road where she can’t accept these things at face value partly due to her parents and Marina. I hope everything comes to conclusion with the series for her. I want all characters like Azuma, Takopi, Shizuka and Marina to love themselves. I don’t hate anyone not even Marina, I don’t agree with her actions. I feel like no one has any enemies and people should forget/forgive like Naruto or Thorfinn values. Overall, very great series got me thinking and depressed to a good degree.

99NoagraJul 27, 5:18 PM

Jul 27, 5:15 PM

#6

Piromysl

Online

Jul 2015

13816

Adults.
- Shizuka's mom doesn't give a shit about her.
- Her father seemingly completely disowned her, started a new life and on top of that, left her alone on the streets of Tokyo, not even caring what happens to her. It seems like he didn't even told his new family, that he actually has a daughter from the previous marriage. On top of that, it was heavily implied that he completely got rid of Chappy. I'd say he is a strong contender for the title of the Worst Anime Dad.
- Marina's mom relieving her frustration on her.
- Her father openly commits adultery and breaks the family apart.
- Azuma's mother setts up over the top expectations and never appreciates him, which causes him to be overburdened with stress and vulnerable to manipulation at such a young age.
- Teachers with their classic not doing absolutely anything about vicious bullying that is happening in their school.

Adults in this show are the direct cause of everything bad that is happening.
The only decent adult seems to be Junya, who was concerned for Azuma and was willing to listen.

The kids aren’t monsters—they’re created by monsters who were supposed to protect them.

PiromyslJul 31, 6:48 AM

Jul 27, 5:40 PM

#7

ReMightyRon

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Jan 2020

1143

the author is bad for writing a story like that!

Jul 27, 5:44 PM

#8

SeiyaTempest

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Oct 2021

483

Of course it's the parents who are bad. It's obvious that Shizuka, Marina and even Azuma became miserable because of how they were raised.

Jul 27, 5:45 PM

#9

SeiyaTempest

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Oct 2021

483

Reply to ReMightyRon

the author is bad for writing a story like that!

@ReMightyRon Do you mean to say that any author who writes a dark story must be a bad human being?

Jul 27, 5:46 PM

#10

Tedybeer

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Sep 2015

42

hiruinthefridge said:
They are just kids, they become good or bad person depending on the environment they live in. They are both victims and that makes them villains. Is it their parents fault? exactly, but they also have their own problems. But is that enough to justify their actions? No. There is no one real villain, like in real life imo.

I totally agree with you.

Jul 27, 5:53 PM

#11

ReMightyRon

Offline

Jan 2020

1143

Reply to SeiyaTempest

@ReMightyRon Do you mean to say that any author who writes a dark story must be a bad human being?

@SeiyaTempest not exactly the problem is that the story is not very healthy for people with mental illnesses or problems similar to those shown in the anime/manga.

Jul 27, 6:03 PM

#12

SeiyaTempest

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Oct 2021

483

Reply to ReMightyRon

@SeiyaTempest not exactly the problem is that the story is not very healthy for people with mental illnesses or problems similar to those shown in the anime/manga.

@ReMightyRon It's a viewer's responsibility to judge whether or not they're in the right headspace for dark content. There's even a disclaimer before every episode.

Jul 27, 6:20 PM

#13

MusashiKarlsefni

Negator

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Mar 2022

880

Piromysl said:
Adults.
- Shizuka's mom doesn't give a shit about her.
- Her father seemingly completely disowned her, started a new life and on top of that, left her alone on the streets of Tokyo, not even caring what happens to her. It seems like he didn't even told his new family, that he actually has a daughter from the previous marriage. On top of that, if was heavily implied that he completely got rid of Chappy. I'd say he is a strong contender for the title of the Worst Anime Dad.
- Marina's mom relieving her frustration on her.
- Her father openly commits adultery and breaks the family apart.
- Azuma's mother setts up over the top expectations and never appreciates him, which causes him to be overburdened with stress and vulnerable to manipulation at such a young age.
- Teachers with their classic not doing absolutely anything about vicious bullying that is happening in their school.

Adults in this show are the direct cause of everything bad that is happening.
The only decent adult seems to be Junya, who was concerned for Azuma and was willing to listen.

The kids aren’t monsters—they’re created by monsters who were supposed to protect them.

I think they actually euthanized Chappy after he attacked Marina, and her mother lied about him being sent to her father.

Jul 27, 6:55 PM

#14

AakBan_Pochi29

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Jan 2024

332

im gonna say parents. children learn alot from them. we become what we are.according to the environment we live in. which is why if you do a background check, most serial killers.or killers I general did come from abusive backgrounds.

Jul 27, 7:10 PM

#15

ZenLemonade

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Dec 2022

93

now the things are pretty clear
that Shizuka is so selfish and opportunist
I know she been through a lot
but I didn't like when she killed takopi and asked azuma to give himself in.

Jul 27, 7:12 PM

#16

Alex_the_reaper

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Apr 2021

947

There's no villain, if anything society is the villain, the parents, the peers, the pressure. All of the kids are kids, even the bullies, even the murderers. theres a reason the law differs from kids to adults after all. kids are selfish, manipulative, only see their own vain goals, they think they can change the world and do anything but its normal, they are young. the adults in this show have no qualms in ruining their lives and setting them back to square minus 5 at life. Shizuka with a sex worker negligent and dad that ditched her to start over as if he had no responsibility whatsoever for the life he brought into the world. Marina with a family in shambles, a selfish cheating dad with control over the family, a mother with complex of inferiority that vents on her child. Azuma with a mom who pressures him into being the most perfect being on earth regardless of his individuality.

but theyre all kids
kids cant be blamed, even at the start there were ppl blaming marina, but why? In a kids pov you can easily identify the root of it all and say everything is wrong because of said root, then try to eliminate it. to watch this show pll rly need to take a step back and watch with trought a very specific paradigm, childhood. the characters are well designed to look young but we cant help from thibking theyre teenagers for some reason. if we all took a step back abd said "wat was i doing when i was 12" you'd probably be filled with cringe of decisions and actions that made no sense, things you said you want to k ys for, your brain simply wasn't developed and thats ok, you were a kid.

so there is a villain, negligent parents that never put their kids above themselves

Jul 27, 7:22 PM

#17

Obitozz

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Nov 2020

11

AryanToAlabasta said:
now the things are pretty clear
that Shizuka is so selfish and opportunist
I know she been through a lot
but I didn't like when she killed takopi and asked azuma to give himself in.

That’s disproportionate. If you say that Shizuka’s experienced trauma doesn’t justify her actions, then you also have to believe that Marina’s family situation doesn’t justify her bullying of Shizuka. The author’s message is simple: ‘Take good care of your child, or they’ll grow into a bad person. What Shizuka did is NOT worse than what Marina did, and vice versa.

Jul 27, 7:25 PM

#18

shirogane_kei9

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Oct 2023

6

I don’t think Takopi’s Original Sin is about identifying a single villain, it’s about revealing how complex moral responsibility becomes when children are left to survive in broken environments.

Shizuka and Marina both act in deeply harmful ways. But they're not inherently evil they're responding to trauma without any guidance. Shizuka internalizes everything and eventually snaps. Marina externalizes her pain by controlling others and lashing out. These behaviors are destructive. yes, but they’re reactions to environments shaped by neglect, abuse and emotional abandonment.

The question then becomes: are they responsible for what they did? Partly, yes. But their ability to make moral decisions is already compromised by circumstances way beyond their control. When a child doesn’t receive empathy, they can’t learn how to give it And that’s not an excuse it’s an explanation.

Takopi’s role adds another layer. He’s not evil either, but his naive optimism and blind interventions make things worse. His tools remove consequences without removing the pain. He shows that good intentions without understanding can still do damage.

So, who is the real villain? It’s not a person. It’s a system of adults who failed parents who ignored, institutions that didn’t intervene, a culture that turns away from children in pain. The story doesn’t offer a clear antagonist because that’s the point: in real life, harm often comes from absence, not action and that’s much harder to confront

Jul 27, 7:47 PM

#19

dicecultmafia

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Dec 2016

43

thinking in terms of black and white like this when it comes to people will only cloud your mind, young grasshopper. people are people, simple as that.

zach/rascal/dcm

walk beside me until you feel nothing as well

Jul 27, 7:49 PM

#20

FreedomKME

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Feb 2018

826

The friends we make along the way.

Jul 27, 8:06 PM

#21

Chronon

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Dec 2021

985

The only villain was Takopi's dogma of happiness disguised under its naivety. It is the selfish desire of wanting to maintain order (at least around you) by solving the issues closest to you. The story is about how not to help. Choosing a side was the mistake Takopii kept doing.

𝓢𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓻𝓪
𝓚𝓲𝓷𝓸𝓶𝓸𝓽𝓸

Jul 27, 9:13 PM

#22

Otakugirl

Offline

May 2024

54

hiruinthefridge said:
They are just kids, they become good or bad person depending on the environment they live in. They are both victims and that makes them villains. Is it their parents fault? exactly, but they also have their own problems. But is that enough to justify their actions? No. There is no one real villain, like in real life imo.

I Agree with you!!! 🤗🤗🤗🤗

Jul 27, 10:22 PM

#23

Endo_Yureigokai

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Jan 2025

27

Everyone.
Or who is the good person?
No one.

Jul 27, 10:37 PM

#24

Endo_Yureigokai

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Jan 2025

27

This is funny y’all really stressing over who’s THE bad person like it’s some kind of debate. There’s no debate. There’s not a single ‘good’ person in the show. (1.) Anyone saying it’s not the kids faults, it’s the parents faults are delusional. Just because your a shitty kid and you have shitty parents does not excuse you from being a shitty kid. Your still a shitty kid. And those bringing empathy up.. your delusional if you think the kids aren’t bad kids. It’s black and white simple as that. I haven’t seen a single character not one SINGLE character do the RIGHT thing. I take that back Junya is the only good person, who was never shown doing a single thing wrong. (1.besides Junya)

Jul 27, 11:22 PM

#25

Ashveil

Offline

Jun 2020

155

The title’s lit speaking for itself yall it’s Takopi!

But if we’re talking about the og timeline before he even showed up, I’d argue the real blame is on the men aka Shizuka’s dad & Marina’s dad. Both are the root of this whole mess cuz the story’s built on deep-rooted family damage, that's what I think

me and who?

Jul 28, 12:21 AM

#26

SolizeMusic

Offline

Sep 2017

14

Everyone has a part to play, ultimately. I see some people are blaming Takopi, but maybe a better way to see Takopi is like another adult or person that could properly intervene but isn't going about it the right way.

I think the parents and adults in the show though are absolutely fucking terrible. Marina's mom is disgraceful, her dad is also having flings with other people (Shizuka's mom). Meanwhile, Shizuka's mom is nowhere to be found, her dad is in Tokyo raising a completely different family. Azuma's mom has set way too heavy expectations on Azuma, and the dad is nowhere to be found. Hell, the teachers see the bullying at the school for sure and do absolutely nothing.

The 'good' people in this story (hypothetical future) would be those who end up breaking the cycle of abuse, and anyone who helps them break the cycle along the way, but based on how things are going 5 episodes in, that's gonna be tough.

Jul 28, 2:08 AM

#27

Mr_Sai

Online

Sep 2022

887

both are horrible
there are no winners

Jul 28, 3:07 AM

#28

Ambeon

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Nov 2018

1024

takopis mom is the bad guy for raising takopi in ignorance and bliss turning him into a cold blood killer.

Jul 28, 4:13 AM

#29

Dan_ALves

Offline

May 2022

1241

hiruinthefridge said:
They are just kids, they become good or bad person depending on the environment they live in. They are both victims and that makes them villains. Is it their parents fault? exactly, but they also have their own problems. But is that enough to justify their actions? No. There is no one real villain, like in real life imo.

I agree. As of now, the parents have the biggest responsibility, so they're more at fault. But if the kids don't change behavior as they grow up, then it's on them too.

Jul 28, 4:37 AM

#30

Zarutaku

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Sep 2016

24022

Azuma, because he broke Marina's heart.

*kappa*

Jul 28, 5:36 AM

#31

Lucky_Rin

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Mar 2024

114

There is no villain ,I completely agree 👍🏻💯. The fault lies in the environment the kids grow up in; it's the root cause of their toxic behavior. They don't love themselves enough because they didn’t receive love from their parents. Their toxic behavior is a coping mechanism for survival. They probably believe the world is a bad place, so they act in a toxic way to protect themselves.

Jul 28, 5:41 AM

#32

Roseydewbs68

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Nov 2024

2

In my opinion the bad person here is actually marina’s father cuz if it wasn’t for him going out with shizuka’s mother marina’s mom would still be sane and maybe shizuka’s mom wouldn’t be so busy all the time and would have time for shizuka but just my opinion on it

Jul 28, 5:45 AM

#33

DigiCat

Offline

May 2021

5362

Q: Who is really the bad person?

A: 1) Shizuka's mom, the neglectful a-hole
2) Shizuka's dad, the deadbeat a-hole
3) Marina's mom, the abusinve a-hole
4) Marina's dad, the inconsiderate a-hole
5) Azuma mom, the narcissistic a-hole

That should be all the bad people... oh wait, i'm missing a couple

6) Shizuka herselfe, developes manipulative and borderline-psychopathic tendencies
7) Maina herself, repeats the cycle of abuse

There, every single bad person in the series so far

Obitozz said:
Hell no.
If after all that, you’re still trying to find the problem in either of the girls, you’re the one lacking empathy.
After everything, you should be blaming the parents, not the children

100% the parents are to blame, but hell no should that excuse the childrens behaviour

DigiCatJul 28, 5:49 AM

Jul 28, 7:33 AM

#34

Sheol01

Offline

Jul 2024

5713

The ignorant alien, but even he isn't totally at fault. The parents & environment here are TOTALLY toxic here in every way imaginable. The kids are all victims, there are no REAL villains, because they are all broken.

Jul 28, 8:35 AM

#35

APolygons2

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Oct 2019

6903

Its about how the parents and life make all these kids into horrible people.

The only genuinely "good guy" is the big brother character.

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Jul 28, 8:53 AM

#36

Zunesha59

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May 2024

32

the one at fault here are the parents and takopi kinda

Jul 28, 9:41 AM

#37

JoeChip

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Feb 2024

3486

This is simply just one of those edgy stories that paints pretty much all adults as evil beings, and that somehow supposed to absolve the kids from their actions, under the pretense of realism and deep meaning. Takopii is just a symbol for the ignorant optimism of people that results in making damage, it's no more deeper than surface level. Hell, the author should have made some random adult beat Shizuka while at it, missed opportunity. Koe no Katachi suffered from the same problem as well, though this time only all male adults were evil.

Apparently when it comes to psyhological storytelling Japanese writers aren't exactly subtle when creating character archetypes. Not all of them are like that of course but there is a certain trend in the majority of dark works that present themselves as realistic.

JoeChipJul 28, 9:47 AM

Jul 28, 2:04 PM

#38

shindasso

Offline

Jan 2021

9

Ambeon said:
takopis mom is the bad guy for raising takopi in ignorance and bliss turning him into a cold blood killer.

hahahha can't be her fault when she lives in ignorance herself

Jul 28, 2:05 PM

#39

Star_Platinum696

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Jul 2021

258

both of their parents.

Jul 28, 2:20 PM

#40

kamelia222

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Apr 2018

1

obviously parents

Jul 28, 2:40 PM

#41

Koloro122

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Jan 2017

31

Sorry, your example is absolutely dogwater. It's like saying just because someone grew up in a bad environment it gives them right kill people. Sure you might have sympathy for the Marina. But only person in your examples initiated violence cause almost death of a person and if you count the dog as well.

You giving the excuse that her parent was brainwashing her so she was not in the wrong. Now how about this, a n*zi parent brainwashing you kill certain person because of race, you decided to do it, therefore you are not in the wrong, is simply just STUPID. You, at the certain age, have the choice to choose your own beliefs and morality. In Marina's case, she chose to remain in this nonsense, and causing violence to said other person. Not to mention this violence almost cost 2 lives (doggo was dead, girl almost). In the name of law, objectively Marina would be the person to receive punishment.

So yeah, we can almost blame the parents, but in the judiciary there is absolutely no excuse for Marina, and she should be held accountable.

I sent the message to ChatGPT, Deepseek. Claude and it also agreed with me.

Jul 28, 3:43 PM

#42

Foxran971

Offline

Jul 2025

4

the kids Marina and Shizuka are really not the fault here. These kids are just desperately trying to survive and cling to any happiness/happy moments in their life. That happy moment could be a boyfriend or a dog or whatever. When a person only has one thing of happiness, with enough setback they tend to kill that individual who is trying to take away that happy/satisfied thing. Neither of these kids have loving parents or anyone that takes care of them. Takopii, not entirely sure, seems takopii is trying to make everyone happy. Im arguing that the parents are to blame for everything.

Jul 28, 5:34 PM

#43

ollieledog

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Feb 2025

5

The parents are the bad guys here. One of the main reasons why the kids are like that is because of their upbringing, lack of it, or bad upbringing.

Jul 28, 11:02 PM

#44

Deviiilchan

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Apr 2023

102

It's clearly not as black and white as people would like it to be. Simply labeling the characters as "good or bad" doesn't do them justice.

Jul 29, 1:39 AM

#45

_ATG_

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Jan 2019

173

That's the best part. There is no one good or bad person in this show. It changes depending on the perspective the show is shown from and the circumstances the characters are put in.

Jul 29, 2:27 AM

#46

animu007

Offline

Feb 2020

1646

Imo only the terrible parents. I don't blame Kuze or even Marina because both are in a formative age, like things happening in this period of your life can fuck you up very bad.

Jul 29, 7:22 AM

#47

Jai_akash

Offline

May 2022

121

Obitozz said:
I’ll show you what happened to both of them, and based on that, you can decide who the villain is.

Sorry about my English. English is not my native language, and the text was translated by DeepL

parents (limited )

Jul 29, 8:28 AM

#48

Vanyasingh

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Oct 2022

4

the parents. they are the ones who're wrong.

Jul 29, 8:28 AM

#49

Vanyasingh

Offline

Oct 2022

4

OhNoNotRabbits said:
The adults are the bad people. These kids are just trying to survive and desperately cling to some sort of happiness in childhood.

exactly. well put.

Jul 29, 8:57 AM

#50

eblf2013

Offline

Jan 2020

1578

I could say that the parents, all of them.

The kids acting like that is a consequence of their actions. I am including Takopii's actions are because of nobody teaching him what is evil, living under an ambient of toxic happiness.

However, the bigger picture shows that the actual culprit is... the vicious cycle of violence and trauma.

MOKUSHI KUSHIMO SHIMOKU KUMOSHI MOSHIKU SHIKUMO.

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