They should've used Aku no Hana's rotoscoping art-style

Jan 18, 2018 4:55 PM

#2

JizzyHitler

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oh god no that'd be atrocious, ito without the ito artstyle is just pointless

Immahnoob said:
Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit,

tokiyashiro said:

Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me

Jan 21, 2018 11:17 AM

#3

kirinonakano

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Piegoose said:
I think it would've worked better than adapting it directly

HOW THE FUCK THEY WOLD MAKE TOMIE BEAUTIFUL USING THIS PIECE OF GARBAGE ART STYLE?

Jan 21, 2018 12:00 PM

#4

bitchassdarius

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you can't rotoscope manga, your suggestion doesn't make any sense

Jan 21, 2018 2:39 PM

#5

removed-user

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bitchassdarius said:
rotoscope manga

You do know we're on an anime discussion.

@all
Ito's art-style is more down-to-earth than most and more natural movements are what would work better in an adaptation. How they're doing it is decent, but doesn't work that well

Jan 21, 2018 8:32 PM

#6

bitchassdarius

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Piegoose said:

bitchassdarius said:
rotoscope manga

You do know we're on an anime discussion.

what would the rotoscope source material be then? real life? that's even more absurd than tracing over the manga, which i clearly meant as thats the only context in which you could parse the idea of rotoscoping this anime

Jan 21, 2018 10:34 PM

#7

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bitchassdarius said:
what would the rotoscope source material be then? real life? that's even more absurd than tracing over the manga, which i clearly meant as thats the only context in which you could parse the idea of rotoscoping this anime

I said "Aku no Hana's style" which is real-life rotoscoping

https://youtu.be/-KoSolkp5Ds?t=115

removed-userJan 21, 2018 10:38 PM

Jan 22, 2018 5:10 AM

#8

bitchassdarius

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Piegoose said:

bitchassdarius said:
what would the rotoscope source material be then? real life? that's even more absurd than tracing over the manga, which i clearly meant as thats the only context in which you could parse the idea of rotoscoping this anime

I said "Aku no Hana's style" which is real-life rotoscoping

https://youtu.be/-KoSolkp5Ds?t=115

no shit, how would you rotoscope real life for an ito junji adaptation? none of his work resembles anything slightly real, ergo it would be impossible to rotoscope unless you traced over the manga, which isn't rotoscoping. don't know why i have to explain this

Jan 23, 2018 2:55 PM

#9

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bitchassdarius said:
no shit, how would you rotoscope real life for an ito junji adaptation? none of his work resembles anything slightly real, ergo it would be impossible to rotoscope unless you traced over the manga, which isn't rotoscoping. don't know why i have to explain this

https://imgur.com/gallery/ZNSaq - this entire comic could be a live-action short with some cgi

https://i.imgur.com/Z1a8uod.png?1 - an image like this is only eerie because it's unnatural. Having a natural rotoscoped artstyle would make this scene stand out more. And just because you rotoscope a lot of scenes from real-life doesn't mean you can't alter them after the fact or draw things off reference for stuff like this. Rotoscoping a manga isn't a thing, doesn't exist - that's tracing.

"Rotoscoping is an animation technique that animators use to trace over ((motion picture footage))"

Jan 23, 2018 10:37 PM

#10

GoldenDevilGamer

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Um no. Ito Junji's stuff works because of its crazy detailing for its gruesome moments. It's the artwork that's supposed to scare, not the overall atmosphere. That's why the series needs to be hand-drawn then rotoscoped. The fluidity and realism in the animation doesn't matter if the crazy stuff can't look graphically detailed.

Jan 23, 2018 11:14 PM

#11

bitchassdarius

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Piegoose said:

bitchassdarius said:
no shit, how would you rotoscope real life for an ito junji adaptation? none of his work resembles anything slightly real, ergo it would be impossible to rotoscope unless you traced over the manga, which isn't rotoscoping. don't know why i have to explain this

https://imgur.com/gallery/ZNSaq - this entire comic could be a live-action short with some cgi

https://i.imgur.com/Z1a8uod.png?1 - an image like this is only eerie because it's unnatural. Having a natural rotoscoped artstyle would make this scene stand out more. And just because you rotoscope a lot of scenes from real-life doesn't mean you can't alter them after the fact or draw things off reference for stuff like this. Rotoscoping a manga isn't a thing, doesn't exist - that's tracing.

"Rotoscoping is an animation technique that animators use to trace over ((motion picture footage))"

do you not understand the point that there is no motion picture footage to rotoscope? tell me how you would rotoscope slug girl? how are you gonna film something even close to a slug girl? how would you rotoscope the stretched bodies in amigara fault? would you rotoscope over cgi? that's retarded. leaving in pure cgi would be worse because then the compositions wouldn't be cohesive. any amount of cgi would ruin any atmosphere, and ito junji's style is where the atmosphere comes from in the first place.

Jan 23, 2018 11:37 PM

#12

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bitchassdarius said:
do you not understand the point that there is no motion picture footage to rotoscope? tell me how you would rotoscope slug girl? how are you gonna film something even close to a slug girl? how would you rotoscope the stretched bodies in amigara fault? would you rotoscope over cgi? that's retarded. leaving in pure cgi would be worse because then the compositions wouldn't be cohesive. any amount of cgi would ruin any atmosphere, and ito junji's style is where the atmosphere comes from in the first place.

That's the point. The difference from natural rotoscoped movements in the normal scenes to creative movements in those scenes (snail girl) would make those scenes more off-kilter.

I was using CGI as an example for how just because people make a live-action movie doesn't mean they have to only do raw live-action shots. Just because you use rotoscope doesn't mean you're restricted to it for every shot.

And rotoscoping is never that restrictive anyways. There's an art and creativity to it

Jan 23, 2018 11:42 PM

#13

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GoldenDevilGamer said:
Um no. Ito Junji's stuff works because of its crazy detailing for its gruesome moments. It's the artwork that's supposed to scare, not the overall atmosphere. That's why the series needs to be hand-drawn then rotoscoped. The fluidity and realism in the animation doesn't matter if the crazy stuff can't look graphically detailed.

You could keep the art-style somewhat while rotoscoping it, like this for monogatari https://youtu.be/-KoSolkp5Ds?t=115

Ito always draws characters very on-reference, and Studio Deen is only doing a decent job at keeping that natural feeling from the comics. To me, the comics always felt genuine, which is what made the horror moments more offputting - even in ironic situations. The horror moments themselves don't need to be rotoscoped, or could even be a creative mix.

Jan 24, 2018 7:31 AM

#14

bitchassdarius

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Piegoose said:

bitchassdarius said:
do you not understand the point that there is no motion picture footage to rotoscope? tell me how you would rotoscope slug girl? how are you gonna film something even close to a slug girl? how would you rotoscope the stretched bodies in amigara fault? would you rotoscope over cgi? that's retarded. leaving in pure cgi would be worse because then the compositions wouldn't be cohesive. any amount of cgi would ruin any atmosphere, and ito junji's style is where the atmosphere comes from in the first place.

That's the point. The difference from natural rotoscoped movements in the normal scenes to creative movements in those scenes (snail girl) would make those scenes more off-kilter.

I was using CGI as an example for how just because people make a live-action movie doesn't mean they have to only do raw live-action shots. Just because you use rotoscope doesn't mean you're restricted to it for every shot.

And rotoscoping is never that restrictive anyways. There's an art and creativity to it

the idea behind rotoscoping is that you get scenes that mimic real life movement. there's no movement in ito junji's work, so it doesn't make any sense to adapt it that way.
imagine a realistic looking girl's head on a snail. that's really dumb, that type of imagery is effective idiosyncratically to ito's style. it wouldn't be just "off-kilter," it would look bad. you would go from rotoscoped natural movement to something that doesn't actually translate to real movement. a story like glyceride works because ito junji captures specific moments at their dramatic extreme. watching a whole scene of a guy squeezing oil out of his face would unnecessarily draw out the image and it wouldn't work anymore.

bitchassdariusJan 24, 2018 7:35 AM

Jan 24, 2018 8:51 AM

#15

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bitchassdarius said:
the idea behind rotoscoping is that you get scenes that mimic real life movement. there's no movement in ito junji's work, so it doesn't make any sense to adapt it that way.
imagine a realistic looking girl's head on a snail. that's really dumb, that type of imagery is effective idiosyncratically to ito's style. it wouldn't be just "off-kilter," it would look bad. you would go from rotoscoped natural movement to something that doesn't actually translate to real movement. a story like glyceride works because ito junji captures specific moments at their dramatic extreme. watching a whole scene of a guy squeezing oil out of his face would unnecessarily draw out the image and it wouldn't work anymore.

Dude, if that's your argument, than how are they even making this anime? There's no movement in the manga, so how are they magically getting movements? It's because it's an "adaptation", the studio puts in work to get movement. Instead of filming an actor to use as constant reference (ie rotoscoping), the studio is just drawing from their heads. And it's Studio Deen so we can already know they're not going to do the best job off their heads.

And if you saw the clip I posted, monogatari still used the traditional art-style of the head. Rotoscoping is a creative process, and you decide what to use from the footage and what to alter. You could easily get more natural body movements with a more junji ito styled face.

"you would go from rotoscoped natural movement to something that doesn't actually translate to real movement"
Then why are cgi live-action movies so popular?

"watching a whole scene of a guy squeezing oil out of his face would unnecessarily draw out the image and it wouldn't work anymore"
What do you mean? Are you assuming they need to direct a long scene or something?

Jan 24, 2018 9:09 PM

#16

bitchassdarius

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Piegoose said:

bitchassdarius said:
the idea behind rotoscoping is that you get scenes that mimic real life movement. there's no movement in ito junji's work, so it doesn't make any sense to adapt it that way.
imagine a realistic looking girl's head on a snail. that's really dumb, that type of imagery is effective idiosyncratically to ito's style. it wouldn't be just "off-kilter," it would look bad. you would go from rotoscoped natural movement to something that doesn't actually translate to real movement. a story like glyceride works because ito junji captures specific moments at their dramatic extreme. watching a whole scene of a guy squeezing oil out of his face would unnecessarily draw out the image and it wouldn't work anymore.

Dude, if that's your argument, than how are they even making this anime? There's no movement in the manga, so how are they magically getting movements? It's because it's an "adaptation", the studio puts in work to get movement. Instead of filming an actor to use as constant reference (ie rotoscoping), the studio is just drawing from their heads. And it's Studio Deen so we can already know they're not going to do the best job off their heads.

And if you saw the clip I posted, monogatari still used the traditional art-style of the head. Rotoscoping is a creative process, and you decide what to use from the footage and what to alter. You could easily get more natural body movements with a more junji ito styled face.

"you would go from rotoscoped natural movement to something that doesn't actually translate to real movement"
Then why are cgi live-action movies so popular?

"watching a whole scene of a guy squeezing oil out of his face would unnecessarily draw out the image and it wouldn't work anymore"
What do you mean? Are you assuming they need to direct a long scene or something?

>Dude, if that's your argument, than how are they even making this anime?
Very poorly. That's why all Ito Junji adaptations are bad. They don't translate into anime.
>And if you saw the clip I posted, monogatari still used the traditional art-style of the head. Rotoscoping is a creative process, and you decide what to use from the footage and what to alter.
Right, it's just the face, not that you would need body morphing or realistic creatures. That's not at all what Ito Junji's art focuses on. I think you're completely missing the point of his style. Mixing rotoscoping and anything else would lack cohesion and would look like an amateur pastiche that would deflate any intense atmosphere intended in Ito's work.
>Then why are cgi live-action movies so popular?
A) That's a terrible argument. CGI live-action movies are many different genres, and many of them are also bad.
B) That doesn't even rebut the point you specified.
>What do you mean? Are you assuming they need to direct a long scene or something?
Half of manga's pacing is decided by the reader. You choose how long you want to look at a frame, but any frame you read only takes place in an instant in the internal time of manga. It doesn't work like that in anime, since the pacing is inherently "real time." That's why Ito is considered to have mastered the art form of manga, and why his works never translate well into anime. Rotoscoping wouldn't help that; in fact it would this show look worse. At least Studio Deen is attempting to insert frames from the source material.

Jan 24, 2018 10:48 PM

#17

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bitchassdarius said:
>Dude, if that's your argument, than how are they even making this anime?
Very poorly. That's why all Ito Junji adaptations are bad. They don't translate into anime.
>And if you saw the clip I posted, monogatari still used the traditional art-style of the head. Rotoscoping is a creative process, and you decide what to use from the footage and what to alter.
Right, it's just the face, not that you would need body morphing or realistic creatures. That's not at all what Ito Junji's art focuses on. I think you're completely missing the point of his style. Mixing rotoscoping and anything else would lack cohesion and would look like an amateur pastiche that would deflate any intense atmosphere intended in Ito's work.
>Then why are cgi live-action movies so popular?
A) That's a terrible argument. CGI live-action movies are many different genres, and many of them are also bad.
B) That doesn't even rebut the point you specified.
>What do you mean? Are you assuming they need to direct a long scene or something?
Half of manga's pacing is decided by the reader. You choose how long you want to look at a frame, but any frame you read only takes place in an instant in the internal time of manga. It doesn't work like that in anime, since the pacing is inherently "real time." That's why Ito is considered to have mastered the art form of manga, and why his works never translate well into anime. Rotoscoping wouldn't help that; in fact it would this show look worse. At least Studio Deen is attempting to insert frames from the source material.

Nothing is unadaptable, but adapting straight by manga tends to be lackluster. You're assuming that artists aren't good enough to draw body-morphing, ext, to a more proportioned model (being the rotoscope). Well, watch Kemonozume - I don't think it's actually rotoscoped, but it'll give you an idea about how completely possible it is to have a fitting mix. Also, the anime "Kuuchuu Buranko" actually is a mix of rotoscope/non-rotoscope from what I've heard - 8/10 mean score.

But live-action/cgi is a very relevant example in this instance of how this could totally work. The usage of rotoscope would make the base-line of the anime similar to raw live-action footage, the creative alterations being exactly as an artist would add cgi. And doubting Hollywood cgi is just ridiculous at this point, every movies uses it now and they all look good most of the time.

"manga's pacing is decided by the reader"
That's the same for any adaptation, whether manga or novel. The director's job is to find an interesting and effective pacing, and to alter to better fit video format. I actually think the current director is doing a decent job, it's just the animations look too stilted to be eerie like the comics. And the current anime is so on-manga most of the time it mine-as-well be a manga panel slideshow, and no that's not a good way of adapting something.

This is a great video on adaptations (first half) - https://youtu.be/T1t4m_dRMWI?t=199

Jan 25, 2018 6:36 PM

#18

bitchassdarius

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Piegoose said:

bitchassdarius said:
>Dude, if that's your argument, than how are they even making this anime?
Very poorly. That's why all Ito Junji adaptations are bad. They don't translate into anime.
>And if you saw the clip I posted, monogatari still used the traditional art-style of the head. Rotoscoping is a creative process, and you decide what to use from the footage and what to alter.
Right, it's just the face, not that you would need body morphing or realistic creatures. That's not at all what Ito Junji's art focuses on. I think you're completely missing the point of his style. Mixing rotoscoping and anything else would lack cohesion and would look like an amateur pastiche that would deflate any intense atmosphere intended in Ito's work.
>Then why are cgi live-action movies so popular?
A) That's a terrible argument. CGI live-action movies are many different genres, and many of them are also bad.
B) That doesn't even rebut the point you specified.
>What do you mean? Are you assuming they need to direct a long scene or something?
Half of manga's pacing is decided by the reader. You choose how long you want to look at a frame, but any frame you read only takes place in an instant in the internal time of manga. It doesn't work like that in anime, since the pacing is inherently "real time." That's why Ito is considered to have mastered the art form of manga, and why his works never translate well into anime. Rotoscoping wouldn't help that; in fact it would this show look worse. At least Studio Deen is attempting to insert frames from the source material.

Nothing is unadaptable, but adapting straight by manga tends to be lackluster. You're assuming that artists aren't good enough to draw body-morphing, ext, to a more proportioned model (being the rotoscope). Well, watch Kemonozume - I don't think it's actually rotoscoped, but it'll give you an idea about how completely possible it is to have a fitting mix. Also, the anime "Kuuchuu Buranko" actually is a mix of rotoscope/non-rotoscope from what I've heard - 8/10 mean score.

But live-action/cgi is a very relevant example in this instance of how this could totally work. The usage of rotoscope would make the base-line of the anime similar to raw live-action footage, the creative alterations being exactly as an artist would add cgi. And doubting Hollywood cgi is just ridiculous at this point, every movies uses it now and they all look good most of the time.

"manga's pacing is decided by the reader"
That's the same for any adaptation, whether manga or novel. The director's job is to find an interesting and effective pacing, and to alter to better fit video format. I actually think the current director is doing a decent job, it's just the animations look too stilted to be eerie like the comics. And the current anime is so on-manga most of the time it mine-as-well be a manga panel slideshow, and no that's not a good way of adapting something.

This is a great video on adaptations (first half) - https://youtu.be/T1t4m_dRMWI?t=199

>Nothing is unadaptable, but adapting straight by manga tends to be lackluster.
I agree.
>You're assuming that artists aren't good enough to draw body-morphing, ext, to a more proportioned model (being the rotoscope).
Seeing as how the current artists fail in even accurately drawing any of Ito's creations, I don't see how this shouldn't be assumed.
>Also, the anime "Kuuchuu Buranko" actually is a mix of rotoscope/non-rotoscope from what I've heard - 8/10 mean score.
Kuuchuu Buranko is supposed to be psychedelic. That's why that style works. That's an example you would use to disprove that rotoscoping would work for Ito Junji. It's all over the place, compositionally, which is something that Ito's work is not.

>And doubting Hollywood cgi is just ridiculous at this point, every movies uses it now and they all look good most of the time.
This doesn't address my point of the fact that you're talking about Hollywood movies and not horror anime. You're comparing apples and oranges. CGI working for Marvel movies tells me nothing about how rotoscoping would work for an Ito anime adaptation.

>That's the same for any adaptation, whether manga or novel.
No, that's not true at all. Manga gives snapshots of time whereas novels eat up time describing places, characters, and thoughts. The majority of what you read in manga is dialogue, whereas you can devote a majority of a novel to just prose. They're completely different.

>I actually think the current director is doing a decent job, it's just the animations look too stilted to be eerie like the comics.
That's why it's not good. Studio Deen doesn't have the budget or dedicated staff to do the detail required of an Ito adaptation.

Also. that video is about adapting a shounen. Ito tells short stories, he doesn't world build. If you were to direct this anime with the mindset of adapting a shounen, then you're gonna do a terrible job.

A better analogy would be the idea of adapting Absalom, Absalom! into a movie. Faulkner is a master of prose and the medium of the novel. No adaptation would do that book any justice.

bitchassdariusJan 25, 2018 6:42 PM

Jan 29, 2018 11:47 PM

#19

Twiist

Offline

Mar 2017

128

Ok soooo in conclusion...
Nope.

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They should've used Aku no Hana's rotoscoping art-style

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