Huge problem of transphobia in this manga

Feb 18, 2021 2:05 PM

Offline

Apr 2012

Summary of messages I wrote while reading the 10 chapters currently out :

I'm totally okay with uncomfortable stuff, I know perfectly well Oshimi's style and love it.
This is just dumb and it uses many borderline (if not plain) transphobic tropes/clichés. (especially depicting her directly as some kind of sexual predator)

Also it's not uncomfortable anymore when there is not even any realistic behaviour anymore, there is no way a trans girl would react and behave like that, outing herself like that in front of everyone, making fun of being a boy...
I know it's fiction, but there is a certain suspension of disbelief that need to be respected otherwise it's just not credible nor interesting, just badly written, stupid and boring.

He was always interested in gender bending stuff so I was expecting him to deal with this in a work sooner or later, I was really excited about that actually, but this is really disappointing at the moment.

Kei is clearly depicted as a trans girl : she transitioned from male to female and was allowed to have a girl uniform at school. A thing that is especially hard to do at this young age due to transphobia making huge barriers at every step of progressing towards this, most trans ppl can't do it in real life.

The fact that Oshimi chose to be vague about this is very simple for me:
It's like how EVERY cis(sexist) author writing fiction about a trans woman : If it was explicitly written that she was a trans girl, this manga would be explicitly transphobic.

You can obviously write a manga about a trans girl but this is just badly written and lazy, HUGELY resting on clichés reifying the hate about trans ppl : She is depicted here as a sexual predator that transitioned mostly for sexual reasons notably the desire of heterosexual men.

TL;DR :
-> Trans woman depicted as a man even though she's supposed to have transitioned to the point of being allowed of having a female uniform in high school, which is really hard to do, she probably should be on puberty blockers at this point, thus probably have some breasts but, OK,the depiction of her body is a detail.
-> She is depicted as perverted, ok we all know this is an Oshimi manga but this is way too much.
-> Not only she is that, she's SEXUALLY ASSAULTING both the other boy and the other girl. ("Trans woman = sexual predator")
-> She's also depicted TRAPPING the heterosexual boy into having sex with her ("even though she's a man") ("Trans woman = lying manipulating perverse gay man")
-> Reminder that trans panic is still a viable defense in court in a lot of countries/USA states to protect the murderer in the case of a trans woman murder.
-> There is a voluntary obfuscation of identities : cis gay man / crossdresser / femboy / trans woman, even though like I explained before, she can only be a trans woman, she would not be able to wear a female uniform at school otherwise.
-> The whole story can be resumed by "an evil perverted insane rapist trans girl want to make gay a straight boy who just wanted a pure and sane relationship with the other cis girl"

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dipItFooMar 26, 2021 8:10 PM

Feb 18, 2021 2:17 PM

Nette

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May 2013

8350

I kinda want to read this manga now, lol. Still a shitty highschool series though -_-

Also P.S. take it from me but trannies can be perverted ;P

♡ Harder Daddy ♡

Feb 18, 2021 2:21 PM

Zeloft

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Apr 2012

Yeah nothing wrong about being perverted, especially in a Oshimi manga.
But this is just a huge pile of transphobic clichés without any substance whatsoever
Obviously, she's almost misgendered by everyone even the teacher introducing her as a woman and telling everyone that she's allowed to wear a female uniform : wtf?

Feb 18, 2021 2:45 PM

Nette

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May 2013

8350

Zeloft said:
Yeah nothing wrong about being perverted, especially in a Oshimi manga.
But this is just a huge pile of transphobic clichés without any substance whatsoever
Obviously, she's almost misgendered by everyone even the teacher introducing her as a woman and telling everyone that she's allowed to wear a female uniform : wtf?

Misgendering happens irl and in reality isn't that big of a deal though.

♡ Harder Daddy ♡

Feb 18, 2021 3:05 PM

Zeloft

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Apr 2012

It's still a form of violence, you personally taking it in fine doesn't change that.
That's also blatantly missing the point I was making in the first place with this topic!

Feb 18, 2021 3:12 PM

Nette

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May 2013

8350

Zeloft said:
It's still a form of violence, you personally taking it in fine doesn't change that.
That's also blatantly missing the point I was making in the first place with this topic!

fukkin lol, words are violence. I'm dying *wheeze*

♡ Harder Daddy ♡

Feb 18, 2021 6:02 PM

LeMackonkeyconk

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May 2020

I dunno if I agree. It's a character, that's the way the author wanted to present them to best fit the story, I don't think it has anything to do with representing trans cases in one particular way because everyone is different, especially in the way they handle transitioning gender. In this story Kei doesn't even specifically say they are a girl or boy or anything, they just say that they felt not being a boy fit them better in general, so you can't say they are misrepresenting a transgender person. The way they are depicted and their perverted nature aren't necessarily connected. I'm no expert and I didn't write the story but as far as I can tell, its just a person who doesn't want to be a boy anymore, (whether that means being a girl or not), and is interested in their childhood friend, while being manipulative, perverted and overly aggressive. I personally think you misinterpreted it. It's not an attempt to pin transgender people as perverted or anything like that, it's a story exploring sexuality and relationships during puberty, an already confusing time, while also exploring the confusing aspect that comes along with gender transitions. If anything I think its the opposite of transphobic. Then again this is just my poorly communicated take, I might be wrong :). At the very least I think it might be better to just focus on the story that is being told, in the end its no different to any typical love triangle story.

Feb 19, 2021 2:08 AM

Zeloft

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Apr 2012

_Nette_ said:

Zeloft said:
It's still a form of violence, you personally taking it in fine doesn't change that.
That's also blatantly missing the point I was making in the first place with this topic!

fukkin lol, words are violence. I'm dying *wheeze*

You're a lost case.

LeMackonkeyconk said:
I dunno if I agree. It's a character, that's the way the author wanted to present them to best fit the story, I don't think it has anything to do with representing trans cases in one particular way because everyone is different, especially in the way they handle transitioning gender. In this story Kei doesn't even specifically say they are a girl or boy or anything, they just say that they felt not being a boy fit them better in general, so you can't say they are misrepresenting a transgender person. The way they are depicted and their perverted nature aren't necessarily connected. I'm no expert and I didn't write the story but as far as I can tell, its just a person who doesn't want to be a boy anymore, (whether that means being a girl or not), and is interested in their childhood friend, while being manipulative, perverted and overly aggressive. I personally think you misinterpreted it. It's not an attempt to pin transgender people as perverted or anything like that, it's a story exploring sexuality and relationships during puberty, an already confusing time, while also exploring the confusing aspect that comes along with gender transitions. If anything I think its the opposite of transphobic. Then again this is just my poorly communicated take, I might be wrong :). At the very least I think it might be better to just focus on the story that is being told, in the end its no different to any typical love triangle story.

I don't think either that Osihimi was intentionnally transphobic but *the road to hell is paved with good intentions*
I also think you're contradicting yourself / not wanting to say it even though you're saying it :
- Kei doesn't want to be a boy -> Well, that's the contemporary definition of transgender :
Denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond with their gender assigned at birth.
- You're explicitly talking about *gender transition* and you're right because it's clearly a gender transition : the biggest proof of that is that she's allowed to wear female uniform at school!

And you're also right that's it not far away from other typical Oshimi love triangle story.
It's literally Takao as Youhei / Nakamura as Kei / Saeko as Yui.
Even at this level, it's LAZY but even in Aku no Hana where Nakamura is perverted, she didn't sexually assault the other characters in the first 8 chapters, as far as I remember.

When you're making a trans character you must be a bit more careful about how you write it, not saying you can't make a perverted trans girl, but trans ppl are still a precarious population at huge risk of violence/discrimination/hate from society so you can't do whatever you like without minding at all about the consequences of your representation.

Which by the way, like I can't stress enough times, is just a LAZY ripoff from already mainstream transphobic clichés.

ZeloftFeb 19, 2021 7:52 AM

Feb 19, 2021 2:12 AM

Zeloft

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Apr 2012

If you want a clear demonstration of how it impacts negatively the representation of trans women, see this comment on this very forum about the chapter 9 of the manga :

musashi-ez- said:
perverse trap, most gays have a greater perverse tendency but all men in general do, and kei has a perverted side and only became a woman to be with yo, and I feel that many trans people also do this for aesthetics

This comment is clearly conflating this specific character (Kei) with trans people in general.

Feb 19, 2021 2:46 AM

#10

Zeloft

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Apr 2012

I would even be up about a love triangle where a cis straight boy hesitate between a relationship with a "pure and sane" cis girl and a "insane and perverted" trans girl even if it's already borderline transphobic (why not the opposite, huh?)

But NOT if it implies that :
-> The trans girl isn't really a girl, playing on that obfuscation that should not be
-> That she's perverted *because of that*
-> That she's not only perverted but a sexual predator sexually assaulting the other cis characters.
-> The cis relationship is so obviously superior to the trans one in terms of "rightness"
-> That having sex with a trans girl is a threat about the boy's heterosexuality. Like, it could be depicted as a believe/fear by the boy but here it's not contained within the specific character of Youhei, it's in all the manga, see Yui saying with disgust: "You're excited as long as they're cute !" (-> whether boy or girl)

Maybe the story can catch itself up and reverse all of this as it goes on but I have serious doubts with how it's currently going :(

Feb 22, 2021 10:58 AM

#11

removed-user

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Jul 2018

561541

I don't know why, but whenever someone makes a character who is a bad person and happens to be part of any kind of minority people say stuff like "So you're saying all (insert minority group here) people are like this?". The character isn't every trans people, it's just an individual. The author isn't implying all trans people are perverted or rapists.

Feb 22, 2021 11:42 AM

#12

Zeloft

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Apr 2012

SuicideMaster said:
I don't know why, but whenever someone makes a character who is a bad person and happens to be part of any kind of minority people say stuff like "So you're saying all (insert minority group here) people are like this?". The character isn't every trans people, it's just an individual. The author isn't implying all trans people are perverted or rapists.

It depends on how you write your character really.
If your trans character is *purely coincidentally* an exact and huge pile of transphobic clichés already out there, then yeah there is probably something wrong.
Also this depiction has an impact on reality and trans representation : see the transphobic comment I quoted above, directly from this forum.

I already argued on how Kei could have been "bad", perverted and still an interesting character / not a transphobic cliché.

My thread isn't even only about how it's transphobic, it's also about how it is bad, lazy writing, I'm waiting for way more coming from Oshimi since I'm (was?) a huge fan.

ZeloftFeb 22, 2021 11:46 AM

Feb 23, 2021 4:44 AM

#13

Zeloft

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Apr 2012

Taking account of (probably inconscious) discriminatory clichés/biases a story is written on does not empoorish creativity.
On the contrary, it makes it grow into something wider, more toughtful about the world, outside of those basic tropes, making artists to have richer and more complex views about the world thus making greater art.

On an other tone, you seem really frustrated for a post that will obviously not have any impact on what an artist can create, at best an artist will read that and reflect on it for its future creations, thus enriching their reflexion and their creativity.

Also, I've no idea what Resetera is but you sure seems all *triggered* by it.

ZeloftFeb 23, 2021 4:52 AM

Feb 23, 2021 11:04 AM

#14

DALMYOB

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May 2019

hard agree. i was excited to read this at first but i’ve come to really dislike it. i hope it redeems itself at some point

Feb 24, 2021 1:19 PM

#15

Shnoop

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Oct 2019

148

it's probably trying to dipict a topic that we just cant understand yet, now if you're saying that the author himself is transphobic, then i suggest you read his short story Walts that depicts the issues of homophobia transphobia in such a small amount of pages

I see dead people

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Huge problem of transphobia in this manga

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